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Author
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Topic: Believing it is not proving it
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: You really don't understand logic at all do you?
You are confusing subjectivity with circumstantiality. A moral issue might be complicated, but if it is objective, there is a correct answer, even though we may not find it. If it's subjective, there is no correct answer. It's just a matter of personal preference. I don't want to play dueling definitions with you. I have explained pretty fully what I mean. You are still confusing, IMHO, morality, right and wrong, and those things that are amoral. Right and wrong, moral and immoral, depend on the individual circumstances of the specific incident. They don't apply to nature, to GOD to anything other than human behavior. And there is not always one right answer. That is often the case in war, often both sides are wrong, and right. It's often the case in marriage, in divorce, in personal relations. But we have by now wandered so far from ANY topic that I doubt we could see it with a telescope. What does ANY of this have to do with Christianity or Evolution?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: Silly indeed.
Jar's belief is confused. He has not thought it through. Do you say that just because he's maybe not consistent? Maybe he has thought it through, and doesn't find beleving in one thing because of the evidence and beliving another thing, in another way, against the evidence contradictory. Religious belief isn't under an obligation to make sense.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: its a big misunderstanding
Some interpretations of the christian god are incompatible with evolution some are not. The problem is there is NO ONE ACCEPTED DEFINITION OF THE CHRISTIAN GOD. Oh really? I'll give you a definition. Jesus, the son of God, was sacrificed for the sins of mankind. I think that's a standard definition. Some people define a "Christian" as he who is a nice person. In that sense, I consider myself one of those. But that's not a very good definition.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 294 by chaospoet, posted 04-06-2006 7:50 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 214 of 300 (300447)
04-03-2006 12:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 212 by crashfrog
04-03-2006 12:34 AM
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Re: Silly indeed.
Religious belief isn't under an obligation to make sense Yes it is. In my book.
"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2006 12:34 AM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5860 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: 12-27-2005
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Re: Silly indeed.
Yes it is. In my book. Well, that explains why you are an atheist. No religious beliefs make any sense to me..... but that doesn't mean they don't make sense to others. It's a matter of opinion.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by robinrohan, posted 04-03-2006 12:44 AM | | SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.9
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Re: Well, nothing in there that has not been addressed by me in this thread.
That does not add up. Morality can be culturally relative, but you would still know right from wrong by virtue of being part of the culture. Who says your culture is right?
The question makes no sense.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by robinrohan, posted 04-03-2006 12:29 AM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: Silly indeed.
No religious beliefs make any sense to me..... but that doesn't mean they don't make sense to others. It's a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of "opinion." It's a matter of logic.
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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5860 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: 12-27-2005
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Re: Silly indeed.
But it isn't logic. Logic: a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning Some (but not all) religious beliefs can not be proven false through logic (or true for that matter). I would say that belief in them is only personally relevant, but not necessarily illogical. Depends on the flavor of the religion.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 217 by robinrohan, posted 04-03-2006 12:44 AM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 219 of 300 (300459)
04-03-2006 1:16 AM
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Re: Faith's Messages
On behalf of Faith who has been banned from this thread I am suggesting that participating members not post responses to her messages since she is not allowed to address those responses. She has requested this action. I would assume that this should apply only to responding messages of such nature that would call for a response from her or answer a question, et al. Thanks.
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4137 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Re: Silly indeed.
It's not a matter of "opinion." It's a matter of logic.
ok then why is it logical? Why is it logical that thier can only be one version of god? what authority do you base this on? if its the bible, well that just kind of destroys the logic, since a text on the religion itself wouldn't be logical or unbias it is all opinion, there is no logic involved just your strawman version of a god you don't believe in
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: Silly indeed.
ok then why is it logical? Why is it logical that thier can only be one version of god? what authority do you base this on? I base it on the authority of logic. Any other sort of God than an ideal being is an extraneous entity which presupposes something greater behind Him: He would be a mere Pagan god. You might as well refer to him as an "alien."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 220 by ReverendDG, posted 04-03-2006 1:30 AM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13035 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.0
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Message 222 of 300 (300511)
04-03-2006 8:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 181 by jar
04-02-2006 9:57 PM
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Re: You can't keep ANY of your arguments straight.
jar writes: But frankly, so far your posts have been like talking with a two year old. You can't stay on topic, you never acknowledge the posts I make, you simply return to your illogical assertions. Repeating the same old tired claims does not make them right. I think it would be best to address the topic rather than give voice to your personal views of your opponents.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 181 by jar, posted 04-02-2006 9:57 PM | | jar has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 223 of 300 (300512)
04-03-2006 8:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 211 by jar
04-03-2006 12:34 AM
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Re: You really don't understand logic at all do you?
But we have by now wandered so far from ANY topic that I doubt we could see it with a telescope. What does ANY of this have to do with Christianity or Evolution? We have not wandered off the topic at all. Evolution disproves Christianity since evolution is evidence of a cruel God. Last time I checked, Christians believe in an all-good God. Christians also believe in something called "sin." In order to sin, you have to know the difference between right and wrong. If you know the difference between right and wrong, that means that morality is objective, not just something you've made up. So if we can sin, we can judge events morally. I judge evolution as being immoral. It doesn't matter if it's "nature" or not. God made nature, so God is responsible for it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 211 by jar, posted 04-03-2006 12:34 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 227 by jar, posted 04-03-2006 9:14 AM | | robinrohan has not replied | | | Message 228 by sidelined, posted 04-03-2006 10:00 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Redirecting this topic
[delete double post] This message has been edited by Phat, 04-03-2006 06:30 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 214 by robinrohan, posted 04-03-2006 12:36 AM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Redirecting this topic
Crashfrog writes: Religious belief isn't under an obligation to make sense RobinRohan writes: Yes it is. In my book. Is Belief Proof? Short answer: No. I cannot prove that my beliefs are provable. IMHO, God can give me logic that will cause many to think. He can do anything. God is under no obligation to make sense to human rational thought, however. In My Book, human wisdom is shown time and time again to lead to wars, bad decisions, and attributing (or blaiming) the behavior on God. The U.S. does this today, as our Theocratic neo-con government attempts to infuse patriotism with manifest Christian destiny and "liberate" the world from the tyranny of non-capitalistic governments. Jar and I dont agree on everything, but, if anything, he and Ringo have convinced me that behavior is a bigger proof than belief.
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