Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,784 Year: 4,041/9,624 Month: 912/974 Week: 239/286 Day: 0/46 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Let's face it...
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 108 (2366)
01-17-2002 11:00 PM


While it may seem like a cheap argument, it is true that if God exists, humans are not (and should not be) intelligent enough to understand everything that he does. You do not have to believe in God to understand that if God exists, we would not be able to fully understand him.
That being said, I also believe many of the supposed contradictions many of you have been raising are not really contradictions at all.
First of all, it has been pointed out that God is unfair in killing innocent babies. There are a few reasons why this is not the case.
1. God did not want the earth to be this way. Although he did create the capacity for evil, he did not force or plan Adam and Eve to sin. They did, and that is the cause for evil in this world. Although God COULD control what evil happens to certain individuals, he probably does not in most cases. This is why terrible things can happen to seeminly helpless individuals. God is not picking on them, the cruel and unfair world is picking on them.
2. The baby would of sinned. God knows what will happen but does not make it happen. This is not a contradiction. God IS all-powerful, but that does not mean he has to excercis his limitless power all the time. Just because God knows what we will (or would) do does not mean he forces us to do it, obviously.
3. Shrafinator brought up the point that because God allows evil to occur, he is evil in nature. This is simply not true. The cause of all evil is NOT God. Just because God created the capacity for evil does not mean he is at fault for the evil that is done.
4. God gives humans a way into an eternity of happiness and love. The baby that died shortly after birth still has an opportunity to live with God in heaven forever. God doesn't seem all that bad to me.
God is not unfair. The world is unfair.
[This message has been edited by Cobra_snake, 01-17-2002]

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by mark24, posted 01-18-2002 7:04 AM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 95 by joz, posted 01-22-2002 9:31 AM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 108 (2395)
01-18-2002 10:58 AM


It looks like you and me have different viewpoints. I don't think God was wrong in creating the capacity for evil. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is simply a matter of opinion.

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Brad McFall, posted 01-18-2002 11:52 AM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 94 by mark24, posted 01-18-2002 4:18 PM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 108 (2677)
01-22-2002 11:02 PM


I do not wish to claim I can answer all of your questions with absolute certainty. However, there is nothing wrong with me giving you my opinions up to this point.
a.) Most likely. However, this could of been destroyed when Adam first sinned, which then caused man to know right from wrong. Since the first sin, God's perfect Creation was destroyed and men were no longer able to be perfect (even though they WERE created with the free will to be able to do so.)
Another scenario could be that although there still is a potential way to avoid sinning, God knows it will never happen because of his infinite knowledge. In other words, the odds may be something like 1 in 10 to the 10,000. The possibility is there, but surely you would not argue that it would eventually happen. Even if you don't consider the extremely low odds, it could also be argued that God just plain knows that a human who doesn't ever sin in his entire life will never exist.
b.) Theoretically, yes. Three possible reasons this will not happen:
1. The odds may be so low that to even consider that it would ever happen is not realistic.
2. God knows it will never happen even though it is possible.
3. Humans were originally created with the ability to not sin, but since then that ability has been destroyed (most likely by Adam's first sin).
c.) Although, God not only has the ability to see the future, but also to see the potential future. If God knows that the baby will sin under the condition that he does live, this may be enough to allow punishment. Whether or not that is fair is not for us to decide, as God is always fair and just because we don't think it seems this way does not mean that our viewpoints are true.
d.) If I had to keep one of the two, I would say free will. You can see my reasoning in the above answers.
Original sin, you ARE the weakest link. Bye-bye!

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by joz, posted 01-23-2002 9:02 AM Cobra_snake has replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 108 (2694)
01-23-2002 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by joz
01-23-2002 9:02 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Again if all possible futures lead to sin there is no free will, If only the future that will occur is observed then there is no free will as all events are predetermined.
This is an opinion, in my opinion.
Just because God knows what you will do does not mean he controls what you will do.
"If the ability to live free of sin is "destroyed" we no longer make free will choices about whether to sin or not."
We still have free will. We can decide when to sin and when to avoid sin.
Your entire point sims illogical anyway. Do you actually think that a man/woman will ever live that does not sin? If you think it will happen then you are fooling yourself. You have probably sinned thousands more times than you are even aware! If you want to be so scientific, why argue about an idea which makes no sense. Your arguments (I hope you realize) are completely theological and therefore do not count as scientific evidence against Creation. However, I have no problem with debating theological assumptions. You must also realize that these are opinions, and thus someone cannnot be RIGHT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by joz, posted 01-23-2002 9:02 AM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by joz, posted 01-24-2002 8:46 AM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 101 by joz, posted 01-24-2002 9:19 AM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 108 (2718)
01-24-2002 3:10 PM


I don't think he predetermines our actions, I think he knows what we will do. If you predict that your son or daughter will one day disobey you, so you impose restrictions upon them in, would that be evil?
If God can see 1000 possible different futures, he will still know which one will be true. In no way would this mean he is causing a certain future to come about, it simply means that is what will happen.

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by joz, posted 01-24-2002 3:48 PM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024