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Author Topic:   should IUD's be considered instruments of murder?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4016 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 301 of 327 (442537)
12-21-2007 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2007 3:04 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
Seems like a pretty sweet deal for all involved parties.
except that adoption often leads to abandonment problems.
So, comrade Brenna, we should just kill them in the event that they could be neglected? Makes sense, I guess. We should just kill everyone off come to think of it. Humans are just going to pollute the earth more and more. We might as well start cutting back on the numbers like China does -- abortions and executions for the chosen.
your argument ad absurdum is not appreciated or helpful.
Yeah, but he's also crazy
ad hominem. rack em up. exuberance is not insanity.
Sounds like he needs to stop being a douche-bag
no. he needs to grow up. there's a difference.
executed
abortion hardly qualifies as execution, especially when done sufficiently early, you know, like most abortions.
Any relationship requires effort.
clearly.
The real moral of the story is that life is serious, and has serious consequences. How we parent and how we deal with people everyday is going to shape, and in many cases, dictate how functional a society is going to be.
indeed.
Killing things that get in the way of one's fun is only going to degrade that society even more by removing the sanctity of life.
we're not talking about things getting in the way of fun. we're talking about taking responsible action. the sanctity of life, if there is such a thing, demands that we do not bear children lightly under the idea that "oh, someone else can take care of it." that is not responsible behavior.
Answer: Don't get pregnant.
Of course, that assumes that we are dealing with responsible people.
responsible people get pregnant all the time.
an unplanned pregnancy does not depend on irresponsibility.
And whether you object to the religious connotations or not, there really is a clear sense of "sin" and what it does to people, and how it erodes any given society.
says you.
Because its a strawman. One hasn't a thing to do with the other. Instead of telling people that its okay to kill their children when they get in the way, or just drop them off on the doorstep of the State, perhaps we should be teaching people about morals.
you mean, your morals.
Who says they aren't?
considering the fact that the most vocal and largest group of anti-abortionists also demand abstinence-only sex-ed programs, i think that's pretty clear that they don't.
Assistance from whom?
if the government has to teach our children about abstinence and police my life to make sure i'm not killing any Precious Little Babies(tm), i suppose them.
if churches wanted to take a tax and provide assistence not dependant on church membership, that'd be fine with me, i'm sure.
Welfare has its merits, in its proper perspective. The unfortunate reality is that in many cases, the people who are on welfare abuse the hell out of it, which is a real shame for those who would use it properly.
you've been shown time and again that is not the case. stop saying it.
What is broken about the adoption system?
every anti-abortionist i ask about why they haven't adopted a child yet complains about how hard it is to adopt. i have seen the awful mismanagement of cases in this state and i'm sure it's not unique. how's that?
I know of quite a few families who do adopt children from all over the world. In fact, my daughters friend across the street is a little Cambodian girl. They also have another adopted son.
but we're not talking about banning abortion in cambodia, we're talking about banning abortion here. why don't they have any adopted american children? also, two on your street is hardly swelling.
Not everyone can afford a half dozen adopted children, though.
so you should have a choice about adopting, but i shouldn't have a choice about aborting?
Because those one's are hypocrites.
clearly. but maybe they've figured something out. it's not all fun and games. these are real decisions being made by real people who understand the consequences.
Because most people conceive naturally.
so only infertile people should adopt children? how in the world will there be enough homes for all the non-aborted children if only infertile people adopt? how is "PUT IT UP FOR ADOPTION!!!" a responsible action if everyone in opposition to abortion isn't willing to take in a child?
This is a string of strawmen... You want to kill these children! That pretty much ends the debate for you. So pretty please, with sugar on top, don't get all sanctimonious on us as if you have the moral superiority to do so.
strawman yourself. i don't want to kill anyone. i want people to not discuss my medical care in public.
if you're upset that you've shirked your responsibility of providing homes for poor unwanted babies, that's not my problem.
I dare say those numbers are increasing because it is far easier to adopt a child outside of the US than it is to adopt within.
then doesn't it sound like there's something broken in our adoption system?
Brenna, you are making one blanket statement after another. Your solution seems to be that we should just not have any children because some people are bad. Surely you see the absurdity in the argument.
i never said that. i think people who are not prepared to be parents should terminate pregnancies. it's not responsible to have a child under the hope that someone else will take care of it. especially when there are so few households willing to take in adopted children.
1. What should you do if you don't want to get pregnant?
Answer: Don't get pregnant
there is no action that makes this guaranteed. hell. even abstinence isn't. you might be raped. do you think that married people who have been sterilized shouldn't have sex because they might still get pregnant? btw, i've known several people who did so after being sterilized.
2. In the event that you try not to get pregnant, but do in anyhow, what should you do?
Answer: Adopt your child. All three parties win, whereas with abortion, only one person wins.
no, all three parties don't necessarily win. squirting out a screaming brat just because you have some hope that someone else will take care of it is not responsible behavior.
3. What should you do about bad parents?
Answer: The Child Welfare Act is designed to protect the lives of children from abuse or neglect. They handle the situation like any other criminal investigation.
but it doesn't work. and what they do to children that have been removed from their homes is just obscene.
I suppose we could bring it back to the Wild West where you just kill people that get in your way.
they're not people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2007 3:04 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 4:27 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4765 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 302 of 327 (442546)
12-21-2007 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by macaroniandcheese
12-21-2007 2:51 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
the knowledge that abandoning a child, even when it may be in the best interests of the child, comes from a knowledge of how human brains work. sometimes, these problems can be mitigated through superb parenting. but it will almost always be there. when a child knows someone didn't want it, it causes problems. period. when an adult knows someone didn't want it, it often causes problems.
Please provide more detail on "often causes problems"
What kind of problems?
What percentage of adopted children that found out about their adoption suffer from these problems?
What is the severity of these problems? Are they so severe that is causes the adopted child to turn to suicide, drugs, or (gasp)fundamentalist Christian belief?
Are those problems worse than what the child would suffer under the biological parents?
LinearAq writes:
The struggles of your friend could have been mitigated by her placing the child up for adoption
you do recall we live in florida.
You write this as if it explains something.
at least she's paying the consequences, right?
I never said I wanted her to and told you she had the option of adoption. However, you want to characterize me as evil or judgmental as if that lessens the value of my argument.
very often, there are only bad choices to be made. the idea that there are good choices always is a fairy tale.
Because life is so bad it is better never having been born. We should kill the little buggers before they find out how much life really sucks. Yet, you still wish to endure it to its bitter end.
What's broke about the adoption system? What is wrong with the child welfare system?
you're kidding, right? well. for one, dcf hires child molesters. i know a guy whose last roommate was working as a desk clerk in a child welfare office. he was pursuing a career as a case manager. he loaned my acquaintance a "blank" cd to use for an assignment. they found kiddie pics on it. said roommate is now in jail. this is not an isolated incident. dcf has been responsible for many cases of severe mismanagement. watch the news sometimes.
Really?
You mean that prior child molestation is a job requirement? You are distinctly implying that child molestation is pervasive within the ranks the child welfare system. How many people work for that system in your state? How many of those have been found to collect and view child porn?
Most infants don't really go into foster care because they are adopted before birth.
show me.
It is implied by the fact that 1-2% of adopted children are adopted as infants combined with the fact that it is difficult to adopt an infant since there are not many available. I would look for more data but I want to get this in before the thread closes.
How many children are in the system vs numbers that are adopted each year? The child welfare site states that in the US over the past 5 years the number of foster children was around 130,000. In that time the average adoption rate from that system was 220,000.
those numbers don't really make sense.
They would if you read the charts and saw that around 220,000 children go into the foster care system each year. You do realize that some children are orphaned or removed from their parents' custody every year?
of course. but why was that anti-abortionist okay with making the choice in her situation, but still prefers to try to disallow it for everyone else. why do they think they're better at making that choice?
I don't know, talk to her instead of trying to paint every anti-abortionist as hypocritical.
in the end, someone has to pay for the kid. many anti-abortionists also favor the "sanctity" of the family. they seek to preserve "whole" families. shouldn't they support those families if they can't support themselves.
as it is, why not let the couple pay for an abortion. then no one has to pay for the kid.
also, this assumes that giving up the child is beneficial.
You are taking the words of supporters of the anti-abortion movement that are applied to different circumstances as if those people meant them to apply in every situation. Those words apply to the idea of a father and mother as a complete parenting group not a situation where the needs of the child are not met even with 2 parents.
Yes I do assume that giving an infant up for adoption in circumstances where it could not be adequately cared for is beneficial. Why do you assume that it automatically is not beneficial for the infant which, it seems, you think is better of dead?
you'll have to tell me where in the constitution it says that you have a right to be ill-informed and stupid.
It is the default position since there is no requirement to be educated.
Edited by LinearAq, : qs or /qs...keep screwing that up

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-21-2007 2:51 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-22-2007 12:12 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4765 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 303 of 327 (442553)
12-21-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by macaroniandcheese
12-21-2007 3:36 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
i never said that. i think people who are not prepared to be parents should terminate pregnancies. it's not responsible to have a child under the hope that someone else will take care of it. especially when there are so few households willing to take in adopted children.
You have not supported this accusation of "so few households willing to take in adopted children" with any stats. Additionally, you have not made much effort to show how this "low rate" of adoptions overall applies to the case of infants as a result of unintended pregnancies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-21-2007 3:36 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Taz, posted 12-22-2007 12:18 AM LinearAq has not replied
 Message 315 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-22-2007 12:17 PM LinearAq has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2730 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 304 of 327 (442554)
12-21-2007 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 12:15 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
You really didn't answer my question, Linear.
What is it about the zygote that gives it that potential?
Its genetic blueprint?
How is a zygote's genetic blueprint different from any cell that contains the human genetic blueprint?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 12:15 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 5:29 PM molbiogirl has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 305 of 327 (442562)
12-21-2007 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 12:15 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
quote:
If allowed to continue living, they both could grow up to be a scientist, pastor, president of a company, inventor of the solution to global warming.
A zygote is a human in an earlier stage of development than a 2 yo child.
Hey, they each could grow up to be a Hitler, Stalin or Ted Bundy also. However that is really no argument for destroying the blastocyst any more than it is an argument for destroying the child.
If it isn't an argument for destroying it, neither is it an argument for keeping it alive, you know.
If the outcome isn't important, then it can't be used as an argument in either case, right?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 12:15 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 5:39 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 306 of 327 (442565)
12-21-2007 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2007 3:04 PM


You are igoring rebuttals again, Juggs
This thread will likely close very soon, so I would appreciate it if you would start a new thread to address my message #240
I am particularly interested in your response to "Alexandra's story", and also to my response to your claim that "everybody should be happy about a pregnancy".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2007 3:04 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4765 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 307 of 327 (442573)
12-21-2007 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by molbiogirl
12-21-2007 4:40 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
How is a zygote's genetic blueprint different from any cell that contains the human genetic blueprint?
I am not well versed in biology but I am reasonably sure that the "blueprint" is the same if you are speaking about DNA. However the zygote's cells can become different kinds of cells of the human body. I know that it will become a human child if not interrupted from it's growth. Do I understand how that happens or what exactly is the cause of this differentiation that occurs? No.
Does this eliminate me from the allowed-to-have-a-valid-opinion-about-the-disposition-of-a-zygote club?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by molbiogirl, posted 12-21-2007 4:40 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by molbiogirl, posted 12-21-2007 6:15 PM LinearAq has replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4765 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 308 of 327 (442576)
12-21-2007 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by nator
12-21-2007 5:05 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
If it isn't an argument for destroying it, neither is it an argument for keeping it alive, you know.
Actually, I don't see the logic of that. Inapplicability of one facet of an argument does not eliminate the other.
Be that as it may, I wasn't using it as an argument to keep it alive. You asked me how they were the same and I said so.
The argument to keep it alive is that it has beaten the odds to get to a certain point...implantation on the uterine wall. Maybe that is arbitrary but no more arbitrary than birth. It is alive, being nourished by its mother and will become a member of society if it is not terminated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by nator, posted 12-21-2007 5:05 PM nator has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2730 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 309 of 327 (442594)
12-21-2007 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 5:29 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
I am not well versed in biology but I am reasonably sure that the "blueprint" is the same if you are speaking about DNA.
Yes. I mean DNA.
I know that it will become a human child if not interrupted from it's growth.
But, given the correct conditions, many different cell types can, if not interrupted, develop into a child.
That's the point.
A zygote is just a blueprint.
Any cell that carries the genetic blueprint can develop into a child.
Why is a zygote special?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 5:29 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by LinearAq, posted 12-22-2007 9:01 AM molbiogirl has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 310 of 327 (442600)
12-21-2007 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by nator
12-19-2007 10:05 PM


Re: Being accountable for one's actions
Should we thank Ted bundy's mom? Or Pol Pot's? Or Stalin's?
Immaterial. No child is born homicidal. Nice strawman though, especially since you are against capital punishment.
But anyway, your above statement is a meaningless one, since if I had been aborted, I wouldn't have felt bad about it, seeing as I wouldn't have had self-awareness at the time.
Then the same can be said for being shot in the head as you sleep. Let me know when the absurdity of your argument sinks in.
Close, but not quite. It is human, to be sure.
It is not, however, a person.
What exactly is the difference between a person and a human? I was always under the impression that they were synonyms.
What exactly defines personhood and being human?
But it is simply a fact that they are unaware, lacking any brain and all.
Lacking a brain? First of all, at 12 weeks of gestation, all the organs have developed. From that point on, the baby just gets larger and more aware of his/her surroundings. In fact, tell me the cognitive difference between an infant and a fetus (as if that is supposed to decide either way)?
One thing we can be sure of, though, is that the woman housing the blastocyst does have a brain and is self-aware.
Her using that brain would be most beneficial then.
It is made of human cells, but it isn't a person.
You are made of human cells, but what makes you a person? Passing through a birth canal makes you human?
Are you saying a blastocyst has a will?
I'm saying that it has a right to life. The inability to express one's will does negate that will anymore than it would for a person in a coma. You are using one specious strawman after another.
Its a clump of cells
You are a clump of cells!
No, there is another difference that you have avoided, and that is that all the age groups you mention are post-birth.
Which is completely irrelevant. You are the one using birth as some kind of determination for personhood. A blastocyst, fetus, infant, toddler, etc are merely descriptions of human development. Disagreeing with that would otherwise force you to take a position that some becomes more human as we age.
Cognizance seems to be your main qualifier. Well, a 24 year old woman has a greater ability to express the world around her than a 2 month baby. Is one greater than the other based on their mental prowess?
I have rights, since I am a person.
What makes you a person?
So, what about all of those babies which are flushed down the toilet inside tampons? Shouldn't you be horrified at this situation? Shouldn't you be trying to do something to save all of those babies?
What about all those people murdered in alleyways? Should I stand sentry in alley's waiting for crimes to be committed? What would you like me to do, spy on people?
quote:
:60 seconds before birth = inhuman clump of cells
60 seconds after birth = bundle of joy
Strawman.
I have never said anything remotely close to this.
Support this or retract.
What? You've never heard of that?
Yes or no: Is a fetus (an unborn human) a person with rights?
And yet, for many millions of women, for thousands of years it doesn't. They are upset and miserable about being pregnant. They want nothing more than to be rid of it.
Thank you evolution.
Maybe in your little, narrow fantasy version of reality, people do all of these things for every single pregnancy that ever happens, Juggs, but there are lots and lots of places and situations where nobody concerned is happy about a pregnancy, nobody is throwing a shower, nobody thinks it is good.
You completely overlook the context. Notice how only when Mom decides to keep the baby is it considered a BABY... Isn't that completely and totally inconsistent with every one of your tenets on personhood?
Who are you to force them to give birth?
They can do whatever they want. I can't force someone not to kill another human being. But I can sure make it illegal.
Alexandra's story
It would all be so touching if only adoption didn't exist. If she's "not sorry," then neither am I.
Did alexandra shirk her responsibility? Did she act irrationally?
Killing your own babies is irresponsible and irrational. I would understand her plight so much better if she just did the right thing. There is literally no reason why it had to be that way.

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by nator, posted 12-19-2007 10:05 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Taz, posted 12-22-2007 12:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 321 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-26-2007 1:43 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3380 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 311 of 327 (442625)
12-22-2007 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 4:27 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
LinearAq writes:
You have not supported this accusation of "so few households willing to take in adopted children" with any stats. Additionally, you have not made much effort to show how this "low rate" of adoptions overall applies to the case of infants as a result of unintended pregnancies.
Random fact.
NPR news stated a couple weeks ago that adoption rate from China and Russia, the 2 largest contributers of orphans to be adopted by American parents, have decreased to a third of the rate just 2 years ago. The reason is that these countries have heightened their requirements such as minimum house hold income and parental physical fitness (as in you can't adopt from these country if you are obese or overweight).

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 4:27 PM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-26-2007 1:47 PM Taz has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3380 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 312 of 327 (442626)
12-22-2007 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Hyroglyphx
12-21-2007 6:59 PM


Re: Being accountable for one's actions
Nem writes:
You are made of human cells, but what makes you a person? Passing through a birth canal makes you human?
Since it seems that we don't have anything in common, I've been trying hard to see if there's anything (small as it might be) that we could possibly have in common. I think I just found one.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-21-2007 6:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4765 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 313 of 327 (442666)
12-22-2007 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by molbiogirl
12-21-2007 6:15 PM


Re: Linear, the same question goes for you.
molbiogirl writes:
But, given the correct conditions, many different cell types can, if not interrupted, develop into a child.
Huh? Could you provide a little more clarity? You are saying something besides a fertilized egg can become a child.
I will admit that my biology training is rather limited but I can't find anything of the sort in my search. Perhaps I need some clues to get more information in this vein.
Edited by LinearAq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by molbiogirl, posted 12-21-2007 6:15 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by molbiogirl, posted 12-22-2007 3:20 PM LinearAq has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4016 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 314 of 327 (442710)
12-22-2007 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 4:11 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
Are those problems worse than what the child would suffer under the biological parents?
it is the same as if a biological parent raised and then abandoned them. it is the same as when adults are abandoned by spouses or friends. it is the reaction to being left behind. it's human.
You write this as if it explains something.
it is negligent and abusive to turn a child over to the dcf in florida. they are so beyond not a workable system it's criminal. they've been blamed, if not charged, in tons of child neglect cases and a few cases of kidnapping and murder of children.
Because life is so bad it is better never having been born.
sometimes, yes.
Yet, you still wish to endure it to its bitter end.
you should be careful what you assume about people.
You mean that prior child molestation is a job requirement?
they fail to do complete background checks.
It is implied by the fact that 1-2% of adopted children are adopted as infants
how does that imply that infants get adopted quickly?
They would if you read the charts and saw that around 220,000 children go into the foster care system each year. You do realize that some children are orphaned or removed from their parents' custody every year?
you didn't show me a chart. you said that there were 120some k children in the system but the adoption rate was 220k. the numbers didn't make sense.
I don't know, talk to her instead of trying to paint every anti-abortionist as hypocritical.
we've had a thread on it. these people said that it was a difficult decision made on an individual level. as though everyone else having an abortion is recruited as part of a mass campaign to kill PRECIOUS LITTLE BABIESS(tm).
i'm not interested in painting them as hypocrites. if you insist on reading it that way, i'm sorry. i'm trying to understand why they think that the decision they made is so different than the decision every one else makes.
Why do you assume that it automatically is not beneficial for the infant which, it seems, you think is better of dead?
because abandonment causes mental issues.
It is the default position since there is no requirement to be educated.
what part of school is required until age sixteen means there's no requirement to be educated? the constitution is not the only law in this country.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 4:11 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by LinearAq, posted 12-26-2007 8:35 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4016 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 315 of 327 (442712)
12-22-2007 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by LinearAq
12-21-2007 4:27 PM


Re: Rape and Forced Birth
yes i did. i cited it from that link a few posts back. 1.7million households have adopted children. 82% have one child. 15% have two. 3% have 3 or more. there are over 300million people in this country. that means there are approximately 150 million households, assuming multi-family homes and singles balance out. so 1.7 million is very few compared to 150 million. how many babies do they tout as being murdered? about 40 million? there's certainly room, but considering that only 13% of adoptions are foreign children, i doubt there's some massive unmet need for adoptable babies.

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 Message 303 by LinearAq, posted 12-21-2007 4:27 PM LinearAq has not replied

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