Deal or No Deal?

Sure. That's what I'm saying. You need to look at the background of the religion, including the current state of the believers' beliefs and attitudes, and the history of that religion including right up to the present day.

---

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

No. The Current and Present religion beliefs should not change, but the only thing that would be changing is a persons belief.1) Why should the current and present history of a religion change, when it is not a religion that changes, it is in fact only the members beliefs that wither away from the religion?The History of a Religion might change, its environment might change, its cultural practices might change, but the roots of its Foundation can never change. You can take the name of the religion, but you can't change its beliefs which remain in the roots, of which the religions Foundation is based on.Can they have its name? Sure, but they'll be looked upon as "Fools", fools who are not what they claim. so what if They claim their religion is different then what it is labeled, what are they then? then they are fools!Christianity is a Religion, though it may contain over 5 different Group names, but the groups have many things in common with each other.Examples:
1Each believes and worships the "SAME" God.
2Each believes Jesus is the son of God, though some members may only believe that Jesus was indeed "More" then just a man.You can make another group, but you cant change the Religion.sincerely yours, Amen.

A religion is nothing more than the collective beliefs of those in the religion. Thus, when those beliefs change, the religion changes. It's nonsense to say that a religion can't change. There is no religion now existing that hasn't changed from its beliefs 2,000 years ago.If you want to redefine a religion every time that the adherents change their beliefs, I suppose you can do that. But of course, that means that what you call christianity today is not the same thing that others have believed for 2,000 years.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I beg to differ.. please answer my questions.1) Why should the current and present history of a religion change, when it is not a religion that changes, it is in fact only the members beliefs that wither away from the religion? also please give explicit detail on how the members of a religion can change the roots of its Foundation, even though they weren't the ones who planted its seed..2) Can an atheist call him/her self a Christian... even though their beliefs are basically against all of what Christians Believe?!sincerely yours, Amen.

Several of my neighbours have done exactly that - jacked up their houses and replaced the foundation with a new one. They're not even the original owners of the houses, never mind the contractors.I don't understand why you think that's a problem.

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

Religions are like clubs. They have a charter and some membership rules that identify members of that particular club. Jews. Muslim, Christians all worship the same God and all revere Jesus, yet they are all religions that changed over time. To answer the question you are asking, what makes a Christian, the Church Fathers came up with a list of the "I believes", the Nicene Creed. To be a Christian you need to affirm the oath of membership, the "I Believes", the Nicene Creed.Now some chapters of the club may add additional local conditions, but that does not mean they are not members of "Club Christian."Religions change in even greater ways. When Jesus came along, a nice Jewish boy by the way, some Jews and later non-Jews decided to change Judaism and eventually they changed their chapter of "Club Judaism" so much it broke off and started a whole new Club. Later others realized that both the Jews and Christians had gotten it wrong and so the formed "Club Islam." Still later Joe Smith found and translated the Book of Mormon which was originally written by ancient prophets and followers of Jesus living in North America around 600 BCE to 400 CE and formed yet another group, "Club Mormon."Religions do change.

---

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

OH MY GOD! are you comparing a Religion to a F@#$ING HOUSE?! I wonder why you can't understand it... Your comparing religion to that of a house! Sheesh! brb gotta get some aspirin.

Yes.

quote:

---

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

---

quote:

---

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

---

Jesus made the same comparison. Do you have anything intelligent to say about it?Why can't the man rebuild his own foundation?

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

Because the very definition of the tenets of a religion are what the believers believe.- What details? The foundation of any religion is the current membership, the ones that are currently active and participating in its rituals and sharing in its beliefs.- What the hell are you talking about? I am talking about the religion changing because its members have changed over time.Take the Unitarians. They used to be Christian, although of a non-orthodox sect. Now, modern Unitarians no longer consider themselves to be a Christian denomination. The Unitarians have moved away from the principles of their founders. By your reasoning, the current Unitarians aren't really Unitarians at all.Or take the Quakers, another Christian sect. An increasing number of members of the Society of Friends no longer consider themselves Christians, and it may very well be that in the near future Quakers will not consider themselves to be a Christian denomination. By your reasoning, since these Quakers may be moving away from its founding principles they may come to a point that they should not consider themselves Quakers.Me, I say that Unitarians are what Unitarians do. There is a group that people who call themselves Unitarians and recognize others as Unitarians. To me, this is sufficient for me to consider them Unitarians regardless of whether they still practice whatever the founding principles were.There is a group that are informally called Quakers. They call themselves Quakers, and recognize each other as Quakers. This is sufficient for me to call them Quakers regardless whether or not they still follow the original "foundation principles".Why do you have a problem with this?

---

He fought for the South for no reason that he could now recall, other than the same one all men fought for: because he'd been a damn fool. -- Garth Ennis

I've answered your questions several times. You just don't like my answer. You keep insisting that "religion" is something external to and separate from the members of the religion. I keep saying that "religion" is nothing more than the collective beliefs of those in the religion. The group members changing their beliefs doesn't change the history of the religion (please note that the phrase "current and present history" is a meaningless oxymoron). But it does change what the religion is now. Moreover, when a group changes its beliefs, the group doesn't consider that it is moving away from the roots or foundation of the religion, but getting closer to it. Consider the protestant reformation for example.Can an atheist call himself a christian? Certainly. He can call himself a jew, muslim, or flying spaghetti monsterist as well. What's your point?

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

if he who builds a foundation on his religion, he shall be the only 1 to rebuild that foundation built on his religion. I don't see why 1 or more members get to change the beliefs, to tear down a foundation built on a religion their trying to change! though they weren't the ones who built the foundation in the 1st place! why can't a man rebuild his own foundation? if he is to tear down a foundation which someone else has built their own beliefs on, he is a criminal and should be charged with arson.Lets use your house theory. You can buy a house and do whatever you want with its foundation, but when your talking about a foundation built on religion.. you cannot buy a religion and decide to tear it down then rebuild a new religion on it... why? BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T THE 1 WHO BUILT THE FOUNDATION ON THAT RELIGION IN THE 1ST PLACE! someone else built the foundation on that religion, and you wanna know something else? you cant buy the foundation of the religion.. so basically your tearing down something that wasn't your to begin with, just like a thief/arsonist. Your a thief if you take something that someone else owns. The person who built a foundation on their religious beliefs has ownership of that foundation.When talking about religion, do not mistaken it as something Materialistic, because money can't buy something that isn't materialistic. Let me put it this way.."a religion is more then what you,me,or anyone else thinks."Edited by Amen., : No reason given.

Nonsense. The current owners have every right to alter what they own. It's ludicrous to suggest that the original owners have any say at all. You don't get to make that rule. You keep repeating that, but you're not really saying anything. You claim I can't rebuild my house. Watch me. Nonsense. The current owners have ownership. Ownership has nothing to do with who built it. I'm glad you included yourself. A religion is more than what you think. It can change, whether you understand that or not.

---

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

A religion is built on a foundation by someones beliefs/faith, so how hard is it to understand.. If a person doesn't believe in the exact same beliefs that were built on the foundation of a religion, then that person separates themselves from the religion, wither or not they think their changing the foundation of the religion will actually make them closer to it, its actually separating them from the religion. To label yourself something your not, it just makes you look stupid ignorant and childish. Whats my main point? act your age, not your shoes size!sincerely your, Amen.

The fact of the matter is that different groups have their own interpretations of whether they are returning to the foundation of their religion, and there is no objective way to determine which is which. For example, for over 1,500 years, christianty was one and the same as catholicism. Was the protestant reformation a separation from christianity? Or did christianity not exist during that 1,500 years? There is no way to answer either question without simply relying on your own personal interpretation of christianity. At bottom, that's all that any person has to support their criticism of any other religion. If it's not what you believe, it's a departure from the original foundations of the religion.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

your claiming its your house when its not actually your house. being a member of a religion is like being a guest in someones house, you cant tear down their fucking house and say "I feel like building something else here!" sorry buddy it doesn't work that way. lets say my house resembles my religion. I invite you as a guest in my house. You are nothing more then a guest in my house. you have no right to tear down my house, since it is my house and I'm the owner. You have no authority, understand? Who says they are the current owners? last time I checked, a member of a religion is nothing more then just a member. a member is just a guest.. he has no higher authority[yet people are ignorant and think they do. what else is new?] a member of a religion is not the owner! a guest in a house is not the owner! whether you understand that or not! Got it? GOOD! ok then I'm going to bed, goodnight.sincerely your, Amen.