War in Iraq, is there a point?

you say, more directly and better than I, what i meant to geta cross.canada has been noble, and sacrificed many in the cause of freedom. Indeed, we entered WW 11 in 1939 and had lost tens of thousands before the US was forced in after pearl harbor. Tragically, we have lost sight that freedom is not something to be taken for granted. We have lost sight that there are real and very serious enemies of freedom against whom we must not only be vigilant, but ready against whom to take up arms. And, it is embarassing that we have become one of those nations you mention, one which talks the moral pacifist highground, while relying on the US security blanket.

Really?Nicaragua: Nicaragua - Wikipedia Or how about Pinochet: United States intervention in Chile - Wikipedia Or how about Noriega: Noriega - Wikipedia Heck, how about Iran: Iran - Wikipedia Take off the rose colord glasses. America is a great country, but we ain't saints. It's perfectly possible to unearth plenty of unsavory tidbits of the US's past and present. Just because we have (and still do) bad things does not make us an overall bad country.But we can't improve ourselves if we choose to turn a blind eye to the harsh realities.

From witnessing history as an American citizen for half a century, having grandfathers, a father, three uncles, & my late & current husbands who have ALL fought & served honorably in the military of this great nation. That's where I get my information!What have you ever done for this country other than bash it?

You have obviously never stood up for anything in your life, have you? You have no concept what it is to be an American. You are one of those people who think being an American is running your mouth & slamming your nation when she needs you the most. All that makes you is someone who cannot be trusted or relied on when the chips are down. But then again, I guess that's what our nation's military is for, to fight for those who are too weak to fight for themselves. The thing is, the weaklings among us used to have the decency to sit down & be quiet while the men did the fighting. Guess you're too stupid to know that's your role in this war. Dumb ass!!

Canada will be noble again, Steve. All She has to do is vote the liberals out like we're doing in the United States. Every election the liberals lose more ground. It will happen in Canada, too, because this war on terror is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. This isn't going to be easy & there's no alternative to it, unfortunately.

Crap.There is even harder evidence that the terrorists learned to fly the planes in the US. The US directly taught the 9-11 terrorists how to fly those planes.Let's invade the US!No...wait.We already did that with the Patriot Act.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You don't know me. I am an American, and I love my country enugh to keep my mind open about it it's history and it's future.I may love my child, but it does not mean he is all good does it? Gross generalization. You don't know me. I opened this thread in the spirit of discussion. I am open to information, I accept the idea that my views may be wrong. I like the articles Monk and Tal posted, and they have given me a beter understanding of the conservative viewpoint on the issue.Your assertion that I am "slamming america" is baseless. I posted history from the encyclopedia, if you don't like it, take it up with father time. Further, this country was built on dessent, I ain't living somewhere where I don't have the right to disagree. You don't know me. I am making efforts to educate myself and evaluate things critically. I don't have to support my govt's actions to support my country. You don't know me. Further, this has nothing to do with the military. It has to do with our govt's decissions. .... I have nothing to say to this .... Ad Hominems will get you nowhere. This forum does not encurage name calling.This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-23-2005 12:07 PM

That says it exactly, Steve.

The dilemma here is French Canada. Like their cousins in france, they are incorrigably pacifist. Canada went to war in 1939 over their passionate objections. Notably, English Canada wanted to defend GB and freedom; French Canada was as non-plussed about the Nazi invasion of france as were, apparently, the french. This generalizes to all kinds of left - right issues. Thus, while the Conservatives can find votes in English Canada, they cannot in Quebec. The only exceptions have been when the Conservatives have played footsies with the Quebec nationalists.Frankly, I'm about ready to support an Alberta separatist movement, of which there have been a few over the years. We're Canada's one true conservative province. The problem is that, unlike in the US, our system doesn't ensure a balance of power between regions of greater and lesser population. Thus, we are entirely overpowered policially by the much more populous Quebec and Ontario, and our sensibilities and opinions deemed irrelevant. Even worse, they're mocked by the CBC using our tax dollars: Albertans, being the richest Canadians, contribute more tax dollars per capita to ottawa than any other Canadians. At least our provincial taxes are the lowest and we pay no provincial sales tax. With all our oil wealth we'd do better without canada - to which we pay billions annually in not only taxes, but "equalization" to poorer provinces. I wouldn't begrudge that, except that we have so little political influence in exchange for all this financial contribution. It's akin to taxation without representation, only more taxation without political influence.Albertabns are probably the only Canadians to support the war in iraq, understanding that it defends our freedom in displacing a tyrant with democracy, and in propagating freedom in the region of islamist swampland.

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What have you ever done for this country other than bash it?

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And again, it appears that your main points of argument are jingoistic slogans devoid of any rationality.

Your theme is I don't know you. Oh yes I do! Because no self-respecting patriotic American who ever stood a post or had a loved one who did would speak of the military actions against butchers like Noriega & Pinochet in a disparaging manner. Real American soldiers lives were risked in those operations & brutal dictators were deposed as a result. Noriega was a thug & a drug kingpin. I regret to say I know little about Pinochet, but I do know that the USA does not go to war for selfish motives. We always have altruistic motives, it's always for the cause of freedom. You have only negative, hateful comments to make about our fighting men & the military actions we're taking & have taken over the course of history. Left up to you, we wouldn't be a free nation at all. You're gutless, I know all I want to know about you.

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Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?

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That is the question.

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

I’d have to agree with Yaro on this. Ad Hominems won’t get you very far on this forum, it will however get you suspended rather quickly. I suspect you’re getting a pass for being a newbie.

More leftist claptrap! You've never stood a post either, have you? When you liberals cannot answer a question about what you've done to defend the nation, you resort to hiding behind leftist talking points. Blah, blah, blah....

No you don't. I'm not. I quoted the encyclopedia. The US supported those same dicators. They still support many dictatorships like Saudi Arabia among others. Yep, he was. And we put him and kept him in power for quite a while, untill he disobayed us. That's a fact, read the history. It's just what happened. Look up the Indian Wars: American Indian Wars - WikipediaThat's probably the most blatant example in our history. Pretty much our entire motive in South America was greed. Name one negative hatefull comment I made about the military or the US? Further, tell me how citing HISTORY is somehow libelus? huh? huh?This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-23-2005 12:42 PM