2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught.

He's right. Just like science lost the debate about the Earth being round instead of flat, and that the universe doesn't revolve around the Earth, and any number of other issues where science has been on the side of data no matter what "public opinion" wants to believe.

Let me ask you this Randman,Would you have them teach Biblical Creation?Would they also teach Navajo Creationism? Cherokee? Tibetan? Hindu? Babylonian? Egyptian?What's the criteria for teaching these theories? Clearly, it's not based on the data.

I read the article you linked.There's sample pool on the E v C question was 2000 people. That's just silly small. 40 people per state dictating education - come on. And where were these people located, which states? Cities vs rural? Are these people educated vs uneducated? Employed vs home to answer the phone when they survey taker called?The article also didn't give an example of the questions used.The wording of the question can have serious effects on the outcome of the survey for example:"Do you think that creationist beliefs should be taught in the science classroom?"versus"Do you think that alternative theories of evolution should be given equal time in the classroom?"Essentially the same question, but I'd expect different numbers from either one.I think the numbers in the survey are highly suspect, but even if the survey was completely fair, and the numbers one hundred percent accurate, I'd still object to this.Do you want Prayer Healing taught in Medical school? If you have a heart attack, which doctor do you want to see?Should we have David Blane come teach teleportation and levitation in physics class? Lots of people believe he can do that?Science is science. It adheres to a method through which it strives to explain observations. It is reviewable, and peer tested.Creationism is not a science. There is no mechanism for peer testing. There's no observable experimentation. It doesn't belong in the classroom.

Well, the newspaper was reporting on the story. They weren't saying that the poll was good or bad, just that it was. That's their job.I don't have any doubt that the information in the article is correct. I just doubt that the method of obtaining the information used by the pollers (not the NYT's writers btw) was sufficient for their claims that it represented the true feelings of the public as a whole.

The problem is this. There are arguments not supportive of ToE, you've brought many of them up.There are, however, no facts or data to support those arguments.When asked to present the facts or data, the response is always - "Trust in God" or "The Devil is trying to trick you", etc.If you want to jump up and down and say, "Show me proof." Then discount anything we suggest.Time to turn it around.Show us proof.Prove, using the data, that no species ever changed.Prove, using the data, that there was a Great Flood, and that magically killed only the dinosaurs first, including the aquatic ones, before moving on to other life forms.Prove, using the data, that in 4000 years, every single race on Earth descended from the incestuous sexual relations of Noah and his offspring, that the spread rapidly across the world, completely forgot their history, culture, religion, language and (without changing) became the Chinese, the Africans, the Meso-Americans, Aboriginies, Inuit, etc.You want to play in our playground, you have to play by our rules.We aren't going around asking there to be laws mandating that we be allowed to teach Evolution in your Temples.This message has been edited by Nuggin, 08-31-2005 03:41 AM

In Anthropology we call this a possitive feedback cycle. It's when one part of society influences another in a particular direction, which in turn (through however many steps) reinforces the original influence.Here's an example:The conservatives attack education -> the public gets dumber -> the public doesn't question what they are spoon fed by the conservatives -> they re-elect them, allowing the conservatives to attack education -> etc.There's no benifit for the conservative agenda to bolster education, as any increase in education can't help be decrease the number of people who question their positions on issues. They only gain power by continuing to attack the system.Hence Bush's program "Every Child Left Behind"

That midget is 1/3 the size of a pine tree! That dude is HUGE!

Randman?You out there? Seems like you disappeared half a thread ago. It's your arguement, care to refute any of these charges?

yeah, but he's been posting regularly this whole time on other threads.

blah blah, employees. You know EvC forum is the center of the universe.

Why would Evos attack creationists as a defense of creationists lack of data?

Randman, I keep hearing you calling for critisisms of ToE to be taught in schools.I assume you are proposing that ID be taught in schools.Are you suggesting that the schools teach the "evidence" for ID? Can you give us ANY?It's not enough to say, Oh look heres a "flaw" in ToE. If you don't have anything to teach in it's place, you might as well be suggesting we take out math, but X = X, not some number.

So, you're saying Creationists have theories but no evidence.In that case, are you willing to have ALL forms of Creationism taught? Babylonian? Egyptian? Souix?Each of these has just as much evidence.

Who are you talking to in this last post?

I am engaging your points. You are suggesting we teach YEC in schools, I'm asking if you also want to include Souix creationism?