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Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: For those concerned with Free Speech (or Porn), it is time to get active. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, IIRC violent degrading porn does seem to cause more callous attitudes and acceptance of violent sexual degradation in viewers, but that nonviolent porn does not. I also seem to recall that watching porn makes many men less satisfied and more critical of their partner's body, and makes many women more critical of their own bodies. But this is just my recollection.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
There's always love involved?
Hmm, that's surprising.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you mean like it was treated as legitimate and important religious iconography thousands of years before your religion was invented?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
But that particular society hasn't crumbled, and while India has had some tough times moving towards industrialization they are currently doing pretty well as they enbrace education and technology.
You're welcome for the pic. I hope they aren't taboo. I find them extremely stylized and symbolic so I hope they are not objectionable, any more than a Botticelli would be.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: They have fallen on hard times recently, since British colonization. But we have extreme poverty here in the states, and also class divisions. And why do you so arrogantly scoff at cow worship? You worship a book.
quote: Can you please explain to me how the Biblical practice of owning females and stoning them to death if they didn't cry out loud enough during their rape, or requiring them to marry their rapist, constitutes "respect"? And anyway, like I said, India is on the cusp of a great deal of prosperity. They are basically where we were about 100 years ago during the industrial revolution.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh, yes, I agree that it's most definitely not just porn. I would say that porn is probably wider in what it considers attractive.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That's true, except that industry has also gotten very good at using advertizing and marketing techniques to create wants and needs in a population where before there were none.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
An aside:
I was watching a Daily Show the other night and there was a field interview in which a female porn actress and actor both were members of the Republican party. The thing I had noticed was that the woman was either really drunk, under the influence of some drug, or has some kind of mental deficiency which makes her appear really stupid and unable to pay attention. How prevalent is drug addiction in the porn industry these days compared to straight acting?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...which doesn't mean they exactly wanted to be there. Women have long done sexual things in order to keep a man. "If you really loved me you would do X."
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, isn't that great for her. Well, I'm going to be totally honest and tell you that I'm not as attractive as most of the women in porn that I have seen. I'm not unattractive, but I'm far from cellulite-and saddlebag-free.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Other than the gossip mags reaching possibly more people, I see no difference. You don't really see cellulite, spare tires or many wrinkles on women in most porn, do you?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Thanks, but honestly, you didn't see me naked. Most people look better with carefully chosen clothing, most definitely me.
quote: I have looked around the internet, seen stuff that was supposed to appeal to straight men, to lesbians, to straight women, to gay men. Nobody looked like me. They were nearly all either shapely and thin or really obese. I even saw a site which was supposed to appear as a diary or scorecard of a man who was having sex with "plain, ugly women" because they were so unattractive as to be desperate, and none of them had the body fat that I do. And I don't have a huge amount. I'm sorry, I have searched specifically for average women several times out of curiosity, but I mostly only find extremes.
quote: Like I said, I went looking and while it may be a niche, it certainly ain't common.
quote: Yeah, well, that's easy to say and easy to intellectually "know" but not always so easy to believe. Look, I'm not stupid. I know who the men at my workplace are attracted to and who they aren't. I know who the boys and men at high school and college were attracted to and who they weren't. I'm not the type that men generally think of as beautiful or sexy, I'm just not. I have found this to be the case both during times of low self esteem and high. I just don't care during the high self-esteem days. You know who gives me that kind of flirtatious attention at work and in life? The 65 year old men and the middle-aged self-important ex-hippies who did too much acid in the late 60's who corner me to recite to me their manifesto. Oh, and the lesbians. The lesbians are sweet that way.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Thanks, really, you are very sweet.
I guess I'm maybe just having a bad day and I'm letting all the critical voices in my head win. I really just wish it wasn't so hard sometimes. It feels like such a lonely battle.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
You don't really see cellulite, spare tires or many wrinkles on women in most porn, do you? quote: Well, let's see. Porn is supposed to be about (mostly male) sexual fantasy, so men are going to want to see beautiful, young, tight female bodies for the most part, right? Women in straight modeling and film are over the hill when they're 30 (although that's better these days, it's still very difficult for a "mature" actress to get parts as a romantic lead because they just don't exist). In my perusal of online porn, it's "teen" or "barely legal" that is by far the most plentiful genre, followed by women in their early twenties. So, porn may not laught at people with spare tires and cellulite, but it is clear that such qualities are not considered beautiful or desireable by their absence. Probably the reason you don't see the rejection is that the girls who get rejected never make it into the porn because they got a little too fat or old or started to get some orange peel here and there. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-29-2005 08:31 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, I think I've done a pretty extensive search with words like "average", "normal", and "natural" as terms and most women depicted have lower appearence of body fat. Just the fact that I have had to look really hard to find someone that looks like me tends to support my contention that porn in general is not exactly uplifting and reassuring to average women because it's rare that we see us there.
quote: Point taken. Still, I'm not sure how a photographer could hide a spare tire.
quote: That makes me roll my eyes, too. They pretty much put glasses on a girl who in real life was probably the homecoming queen and call her the "plain nerdy one". Never are they fat, or have acne, or really bad hair. That's why I liked "Welcome to the Dollhouse" so much. They actually cast a not-stunning, actually average looking girl. I could SO relate.
quote: Sorry, I can't find the link right now, but I'll try to locate it later. I went to the two sites you suggested and while they do show a small range of body types and the women pictured were certainly not "model types", and a few of them come a bit closer to what I look like, none of them really look like me. I'd have to lose about 10 or 15 pounds to look like most of them, unless it's all camera angles and Photoshop. I do have to say that some of the photography and artwork on Janesguide is beautiful, though.
quote: I'm sorry, but the male leads in almost every sitcom on TV are less atrractive than the women who play their wives and girlfriends. "Funny men get the pretty girl" seems to be the message I get.
quote: I don't know. Hasn't it been a traditional notion (although changing in recent years) that women don't care as much about looks as men?
quote: I would say that the "fantastic shape" thing is probably pretty recent. The money thing isn't, that's true. But Playboy also teaches men what they should find attractive, which is the tall, long-haired, blonde, young, large-breasted, caucasian, thin, pliant woman.
quote: Well, if men are getting lots of self-esteem problems from porn I am surprised they spend so much money on it. Somehow I think that men focus on the women in porn, because the woman is the focus.
quote: Well, then, you and I have something in common.
quote: Sigh. I wish it were that easy. Believe me, I have been working on it every day since I was 19. Thanks.
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