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Author Topic:   Forum Oscars
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 23 of 219 (482513)
09-16-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Archer Opteryx
11-01-2006 9:58 AM


Re: Gunning for Glory
Herself, if I am not mistaken.
(thanks all)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-01-2006 9:58 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 27 of 219 (482598)
09-17-2008 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Straggler
09-16-2008 7:36 PM


Re: Forum Oscars - The Rebirth?
Hey Straggler,
Feel free to broaden, expand, redefine or take with a pinch of salt.
(B) Pragmatic believer: riVeRraT, truthlover, Phat
(C) Pragmatic disbeliever: Rrhain, Modulus
(D) Rampant atheist: CK/Charles Knight
(E) Open-minded skeptic: tie between Holmes and Ben
(F) A category on his own: Joe Meert
(G) The third side of the argument: Archer
(H) Horse rider (and dead horse flogger): Schraff
(I) Most missed: RobinRohan
And a host of good posters hard to categorize
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Straggler, posted 09-16-2008 7:36 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Straggler, posted 12-04-2009 2:18 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 57 of 219 (538970)
12-12-2009 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straggler
12-11-2009 2:03 PM


Re: Social Categories + General Banter
So much for positive categories
One time deist. Now an agnostic with opinions. I had best not say any more.
Ah yes our resident cheese agnostic. The man for who every slice of pizza is a voyage of discovery.
Is there an award for mis-understanding the argument and being proud of it? Or for jumping to the most false conclusions? (Both of these statements are wrong).
Do you really want to drag your thread in that direction?
I'd have to add to my list on Message 27:
Briterican for most honest atheist
Roxrcool for the best avatar
Brian for the avatar that describes the debate
Mammuthus for must-read whenever he posts
Best software developer = Percy
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Straggler, posted 12-11-2009 2:03 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Briterican, posted 12-12-2009 4:32 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 66 by Straggler, posted 12-12-2009 7:47 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 80 by xongsmith, posted 12-14-2009 1:24 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 81 of 219 (539293)
12-14-2009 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by xongsmith
12-14-2009 1:24 PM


Puppy Linux Oscar for simplicity
glad of it, xongsmith.
puppy linux is great.
Yes, OS on a stick, along with all your files, means you can take your computer anywhere you have access to a machine
Puppy Linux gets my oscar nomination for the best OS: simple and tight. loads into RAM for fast operation. Load from a read only CD and the OS is impervious to virus, trojans, etc, and just need to sweep your personal files.
The wave of the future is a portable memory and tangential hardware used as hoc as necessary.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by xongsmith, posted 12-14-2009 1:24 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Straggler, posted 12-18-2009 12:32 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 91 of 219 (539703)
12-18-2009 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Straggler
12-18-2009 12:32 PM


Getting a little red-nosed perhaps?
Hi Straggler, having a little Christmas Cheer?
Just to recap where this began, Percy is a Deist - Now what's the difference between a deist and an atheist?, Message 4, where I wrote:
Hey Moose,
I have one question: Isn't it a mighty fine line between deist and atheist? I think so.
As another resident Deist, let me reply.
The rational conclusion based on evidence is agnosticism, the uncertainty of existence of god/s.
Atheists are on one side of the line of agnosticism, deists are on the other. This may be a fine line, but the distinction is real, like the difference between negative numbers and positive numbers, with the zero position being your fine line.
The atheist believes there is no evidence of god/s and that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence (all A is B, B therefore A logical fallacy).
The deist believes that god/s is/are essentially unknowable, that all evidence points to the way the natural world functions as created, and all we can understand is how it works.
Enjoy.
(bold for emphasis)
There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the following posts, but it seems that the key claim -- that the logical, rational position based on the evidence available was agnosticism -- went largely uncontested.
That the agnostic position is indeed the logical conclusion has now been demonstrated to be the case in If it can be, how can the "Absence of Evidence" be "Evidence of Absence?". thread, where a fairly complete summary can be found in Message 273, especially in the green area, and where it concludes with:
As a result of the logical analysis we have:
  1. Absolute Theist: knows god/s exist. (logically invalid position)
  2. Strong Theist: the existence of god/s is more likely than not. (logically invalid position)
  3. Weak Theist: the existence of god/s is possible, maybe likely, but not sure. (logically valid position)
  4. Agnostic: god/s may exist or they may not, there is insufficient evidence to know one way or the other. (logically valid position)
  5. Weak Atheist: the non-existence of gods is possible, maybe likely, but not sure. (logically valid position)
  6. Strong Atheist: the non-existence of god/s is more likely than not. (logically invalid position)
  7. Absolute Atheist: knows that god/s do not exist. (logically invalid position)
This has not been refuted, certainly not by the likes of Straggler, so we see that this original claim - that the only logical position was the agnostic position - has withstood the test of time.
Of course the biggest wailing was from my claim that atheists use the absence of evidence as evidence of absence, and curiously, one of the biggest wailers was (and still is) Straggler, who also stated:
Percy is a Deist - Now what's the difference between a deist and an atheist?, Message 332: RAZD started this argument by relentlessly declaring that the atheist position amounted to "absence of evidence is evidence of absence". He relentlessly and repeatedly asserted this despite numerous actual atheists telling him that this was not their position at all.
...
I am an atheist because I consistently do not believe in the actuality of that for which there is no evidential reason to even think possible.
...
There is no evidence of gods. Nor is there any evidence to suggest the possibility of gods. If there was such evidence gods would be evidentially viable concepts. If there was such evidence faith would be redundant.
(color for reference)
In logical (premise premise conclusion) format we have:
I consistently do not believe in the actuality of that for which there is no evidential reason to even think possible.
There is no evidence of gods. Nor is there any evidence to suggest the possibility of gods.

Does not believe in the actuality of gods, due to the lack of evidence for gods.
I laugh every time I read this, for there is Straggler saying:
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence ...
... just as I said back at the beginning.
In other words, what I said back at the beginning was all that needed to be said, about the agnostic position and about the absence of evidence issue, and it still holds true.
Thus my nomination for the Oscar for the most pointless dragging the discussion out to endless lengths, goes to the one trying to ignore the obvious from the start: (1) the only logical position, based on the all the available objective empirical evidence, IS agnostic, and (2) that atheists DO claim that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence: including, amusingly, Straggler himself.
So enjoy the season of Winter Solstice (at 9:47 a.m. on Monday, December 21, 2009, btw), and perhaps the new year will bring some degree of acknowledgment of this reality.
One should leave mock lyrics to the pros, like Walt Kelly:
http://www.pogopossum.com/deckus.htm
quote:
Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!

Happy Holidays
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Straggler, posted 12-18-2009 12:32 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 12-18-2009 11:17 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(4)
Message 99 of 219 (539874)
12-20-2009 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Straggler
12-18-2009 11:17 PM


Re: Bah Humbug!
Is it "ho ho ho" or "blah blah blah"?
for the season he says "bah humbug ... bah"
to address the salient issues,
as he does often refuse,
Straggler looks for places to go "ahah!"
in this the season to be jolly,
to decorate with spruce, pine and holly,
one finds the time
to point out in rhyme
the source of his continuing folly
he concocts many meaningless phrases
as his argument goes through its phases
from logical fallacies
to silly tautologies
that he thinks cover all necessary bases
he trades one logical fallacy for the next
his argument happily place into text
proudly he claims "victory"
missing the point of the story
and as a result he is frequently vexed
"There's no evidence for god/s" he proclaims,
"so I don't believe in god/s" he maintains.
But "there's never an absence"
"of all objective evidence"
because mushrooms grow in the woods when it rains.
We all have our pet peeve
regarding the things we believe
but in is time for peace
hoping hostilities cease
Happy Holidays on this solstice eve
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : scan
Edited by RAZD, : ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 12-18-2009 11:17 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Straggler, posted 12-21-2009 8:01 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 101 by Blue Jay, posted 12-21-2009 1:53 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 103 by Straggler, posted 12-21-2009 4:40 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 107 of 219 (540448)
12-25-2009 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Blue Jay
12-21-2009 1:53 PM


Re: A Literary Critique
Hi Bluejay, felicitous festivals to you,
It looks like it wants to be a limerick,
Not all aabba verse is limerick, as you say, for there is a meter of insouciance involved in any good limerick
a limerick is a kind of verse
some call "ad-" or even worse,
usually writ
with a little wit
but just a bit per verse.
Hope you'll enjoy the season of the winter solstice without strain or pain, and find cheer where it is best found.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Blue Jay, posted 12-21-2009 1:53 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 108 of 219 (540450)
12-25-2009 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Straggler
12-21-2009 4:40 PM


Re: Rap Attack - The Rhyme Off Continues
But since when did that ever stop me here?
When did anything stop you? Certainly
reasoned argument versus fallacy after fallacy
hasn't done the task.
It seems too much to ask
when logic's exposed your evidential inadequacy
but adversity is not the spirit of the season
so let this end, to some folks' pleasin:
when it comes to rhyme
I've done the time
and I'll leave the argument to reason.
I know this is probably overkill.
Only for one who believes they can ignore reality and the several logical problems with their position/s. Curiously, the ability to rhyme does not mean one has the ability to make a cogent argument, or that one deals with the actual issues in the process.
So you get an oscar for the longest pointless rhyme.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Straggler, posted 12-21-2009 4:40 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Straggler, posted 12-26-2009 6:20 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 120 of 219 (540902)
12-29-2009 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Straggler
12-29-2009 12:31 PM


Reality & the blind atheist oscar?
Dear Straggler, basking in the glow of appreciation for your rap-ability, please:
Because as we have all agreed, including you and RAZD, there is not and can never be a complete absence of all objective evidence.
What we agree is that objective evidence exists, it just doesn't necessarily apply to your position, and you have to employ several logical fallacies in order to assume such connections.
We all agree that there is mountains of objective evidence that mushrooms grow in the dark at night under a new moon when it rains - this just doesn't happen to show that god/s do not, or cannot, exist, just that mushrooms grow in the dark at night under a new moon when it rains.
We also agree that there is objective empirical evidence that shows certain details of certain maps to be inaccurate in those details (the early conceptions of gravity being such a case), but that these inaccuracies do not invalidate the terrain (mountains, etc) being portrayed, only the specific portrayals - and thus these too do not show that god/s do not, or cannot, exist, just that the portrayals are not valid representations.
Only likelihood.
Also falsified, (see previous for summary falsification) leaving you once again as a pseudoskeptic, employing logical fallacy after logical fallacy, attempting to support a position that is by definition and form logically invalid from the start.
What you have is only possibility.
You can sing and you can dance, but your personal opinion cannot change this reality, as, curiously, reality is unconcerned about your opinions, biases, preconceptions, and beliefs. Nor does reality need to be put into verse in order to falsify your position/s.
I could say that your apparent inability to see\understand\recognize this simple set of facts earns you the blind-atheist oscar, and award of equal value to the blind-theist oscar (whatever? johnjohn10:10 etc?)
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Straggler, posted 12-29-2009 12:31 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Straggler, posted 12-30-2009 10:12 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 125 of 219 (541064)
12-31-2009 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Straggler
12-30-2009 10:12 AM


Re: Start an Appropriate Thread Or Leave Things Be
Oh boo hoo, Straggler. Tell me another sob story.
If you are utterly determined to kick off again you can start by tackling some of the posts you have selectively ignored in favour of your imbecilic straw man "Straggler says people make things up therefore everything Straggler disagrees with must be made up".
Which, curiously is a straw man version of the real argument, the one that refutes your position because it is based on logical fallacy after logical fallacy, and which you continue to ignore while making more pointless irrelevant posts.
But frankly I just don't think you have anything very interesting to say anymore.
Yep, another amusing example of cognitive dissonance and dismissal of contradictory information.
Back to your humorless gimp mode again I see.
No, I find your position increasingly hilarious: all you are left with are quips, misquotes, and denial.
You and I are never gonna agree.
Because you cannot see where and why you are wrong. Where and why the "objectively evidenced context of human history, culture/anthropology and psychology" does not support your position, except by your wishful thinking and pre-assumption that you are correct. Where and why it provides you with nothing more than a possibility of being correct.
And how are those faith based agnostic opinions of yours holding up by the way?
Which exemplifies your lack of understanding. Your position is faith based agnostic plus pseudoskeptic assumption of conclusions that contradicted by the logic analysis of your position.
Not that you have not addressed the issue of the logical failures of your position, and all you have done is repeat your already falsified position/s. Calling it a "silly formula" is not debate, nor refutation, that is blind ideology.
Nor have you been able to establish that you are anything but a pseudoskeptic.
... start an appropriate thread RAZ.
I'm working on one, but it's not for (about) you (sorry - I know you're so vain about your opinions).
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Straggler, posted 12-30-2009 10:12 AM Straggler has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 186 of 219 (652001)
02-11-2012 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Straggler
07-26-2011 12:47 PM


Re: And.....
For 8,000 posts I will have to really treat myself and crack open a bottle of vintage Blue Nun.
Nice choice for a poster wannabe.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Straggler, posted 07-26-2011 12:47 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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