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Author Topic:   boasts of Athiests II
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 300 (332636)
07-17-2006 5:55 PM


Jar and the awesome world
Certainly it is the people who get to appreciate the experience of wonder, but it is the reality, the universe, nature that is so awsome.
Jar, do you mean that the world is awesome in a subjective or objective sense?
If you mean it in the subjective sense, the truth-value of your comment is as follows: either you feel awe when you observe the universe or you do not. If we had an awe-meter, we could hook it up to your brain and find out if you do in fact feel sufficent awe for this statement to be true.
Is this all you mean? Somehow I think you mean more, and yet you have said that all judgments are subjective.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 5:59 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 297 by ramoss, posted 07-17-2006 9:41 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 287 of 300 (332638)
07-17-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 5:55 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Jar, do you mean that the world is awesome in a subjective or objective sense?
Who the hell cares? LOL

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 5:55 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:06 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 288 of 300 (332640)
07-17-2006 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by jar
07-17-2006 5:59 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Who the hell cares? LOL
Obviously, I do, or I wouldn't have asked.
Now, if you mean it in the objective sense, the statement would mean that the universe exudes those qualities that produce awe even if there's no one to feel it. Millions and millions of years ago, when there were no people, the world nonetheless was awesome. I'm not sure if the animals feel awe or not, but even before the animals the universe was awesome. Is this what you mean?
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 5:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 6:16 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 289 of 300 (332647)
07-17-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 6:06 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Now, if you mean it in the objective sense, the statement would mean that the universe exudes those qualities that produce awe even if there's no one to feel it. Millions and millions of years ago, when there were no people, the world nonetheless was awesome. I'm not sure if the animals feel awe or not, but even before the animals the universe was awesome. Is this what you mean?
How utterly silly can your posts get?
Would the things that I find awesome exist if there were no one to observe them? Some, certainly. Would they inherently still be as awesome if not observed? Certainly.
Others require interaction. For example, the fun of herding the critters was a shared activity, as was rounding up the carts. Neither event would have happened had folk not been there to enjoy them.
Millions and millions of years ago, when there were no people, the world nonetheless was awesome.
Not just millions of years ago, billions even Brazillions of years ago the universe was awesome.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:06 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:21 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 300 (332650)
07-17-2006 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by jar
07-17-2006 6:16 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
How utterly silly can your posts get?
I don't know. Is there a limit?
Not just millions of years ago, billions even Brazillions of years ago the universe was awesome.
That sounds like your statement is meant in an objective sense.
But there's a problem here. Your evidence is SUBJECTIVE.
You can't build an objective argument on subjective evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 6:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 6:26 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 291 of 300 (332653)
07-17-2006 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 6:21 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
That sounds like your statement is meant in an objective sense.
But there's a problem here. Your evidence is SUBJECTIVE.
You can't build an objective argument on subjective evidence.
Really? Who cares Robin. Oh yeah, you care.
Hey Robin, I don't care if you care.
How many times do I have to tell you, it is ALL subjective.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:21 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:44 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 300 (332663)
07-17-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by jar
07-17-2006 6:26 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
How many times do I have to tell you, it is ALL subjective.
All? Are you suggesting that science or mathematics, when properly practiced, is subjective? I would certainly disagree about that.
Would you say that logic, properly handled, is subjective? I think I would disagree about that too.
But I suppose you are referring to morals and what we value and so forth. My nihilistic philosophy would tend to agree about that. Therefore, the statement, "the world is awesome," being merely subjective, need not be considered seriously except insofar as it is a description of your feelings.
That's the problem. People keep agreeing with me that values are subjective, but they also keep ramming them home to me with a bit too much vigor.
You can't have it both ways.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 6:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 7:03 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 293 of 300 (332670)
07-17-2006 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 6:44 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
A little while ago I took the doggies out for a run. It is really hot, way to humid and little chance of rain. I hooked the doggies up to their runs an dheaded back in. In a few minutes I looked out to see how they were and one was lying down against the fence, totally motionless.
I went out and she never moved. The other doggies was off exploring at the limits of the cable, but D'Arcy remaind motionless. I knelt down beside her and her visable eye rotated up towards me. I was worried that she might be over heated so pulled gently and asked her to come inside.
She never moved.
I unhooked her cable and picked her up but she held her head to the fence as long as she could and as soon as I put her down on the patio she ran right back to the fence a flopped down.
Curious at her unusual behavior I too peeked through the cracks in the boards.
And there, on the other side of the fence, was a momma cat with three or four nursing kittens. See looked up towards me then swung her head to lick the kitten closest to her. It was obvious she was aware of me, and of D'Arcy, yet she felt comfortable enough to nurse her kittens right there by the fence.
How utterly awesome.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 6:44 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 7:07 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 294 of 300 (332671)
07-17-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by jar
07-17-2006 7:03 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
And there, on the other side of the fence, was a momma cat with three or four nursing kittens. See looked up towards me then swung her head to lick the kitten closest to her. It was obvious she was aware of me, and of D'Arcy, yet she felt comfortable enough to nurse her kittens right there by the fence.
How utterly awesome.
I think this is called, in rhetoric, the appeal of pathos.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 7:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 7:26 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 295 of 300 (332676)
07-17-2006 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 7:07 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Many years ago I was on my first cross country drive. We were in the Texas panhandle and I suddenly realized that there was nothing to see in any direction. No mountains, no hills, no farms, no forests, nothing.
Having grown up on the East coast, an area where there was NOTHING to see was amazing so I pulled the car over to the side of the road, climbed atop the Blue '67 Camaro (white nose stripe, 327, 4 barrel, Hurst floor mount shifter) to take a picture. I knew folk back home would not believe there really was a place where you could see nothing unless I had proof.
Pictures taken I climbed down to continue on our journey, and from beneath the car came a ragged little black doggie. Where had she come from? We took her in, gave her some water (but not too much) and continued on stopping in the next town we came to.
"Happens all the time," the man at the garage said when asked, "Folk take them out to the desert to get rid of them."
Well from then on and for about 17 years Brownie (cause she had big brown eyes) was a part of the family.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 7:07 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 7:35 PM jar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 296 of 300 (332677)
07-17-2006 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by jar
07-17-2006 7:26 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Well, I have this old cat sitting beside me at the moment, if that helps. This cat and I have been through tough times. She has the habit of waking us up at about 3:00 am. No alarm clocks needed with this thing around. We throw her in jail--a spare room. She moans the rest of the night, but it's muffled so we can sleep. Then we let her out around 5:30.
Then she sits on my newspaper that I am trying to read.
She's a character.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 7:26 PM jar has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 297 of 300 (332696)
07-17-2006 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 5:55 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Hey, it's subjective, and it works for him.
You know what, it works for me too. Seeing the world through that view point is much more meaningful for ME that either mumbling and groaning about the world, and trying to have something imposed upon me from an outside source.
Yep.. it's subjective. But, to me, it is more meaningful on a personal level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 5:55 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 9:53 PM ramoss has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 300 (332698)
07-17-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by ramoss
07-17-2006 9:41 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Hey, it's subjective, and it works for him.
You know what, it works for me too. Seeing the world through that view point is much more meaningful for ME that either mumbling and groaning about the world, and trying to have something imposed upon me from an outside source.
Yep.. it's subjective. But, to me, it is more meaningful on a personal level.
Ok, just keep this in mind the next time you want to present an ARGUMENT-- or criticize mine.
You can't have it both ways.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by ramoss, posted 07-17-2006 9:41 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by jar, posted 07-17-2006 10:06 PM robinrohan has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 299 of 300 (332701)
07-17-2006 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by robinrohan
07-17-2006 9:53 PM


Re: Jar and the awesome world
Ok, just keep this in mind the next time you want to present an ARGUMENT-- or criticize mine.
You can't have it both ways.
Have WHAT both ways Robin?
You still haven't presented anything. How can opinions or experience or morals or feelings be anything but subjective?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by robinrohan, posted 07-17-2006 9:53 PM robinrohan has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 300 of 300 (332706)
07-17-2006 10:21 PM


End of thread - closing
Folk, we have hit the magic 300 mark.
It's time to give this topic a rest.


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