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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage
Rrhain
Member (Idle past 1103 days)
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 451 of 519 (474511)
07-09-2008 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Artemis Entreri
07-08-2008 9:02 PM


Artemis Entreri writes:

quote:
I wish they would just let us vote on this issue, instead of using the courts to make policy.

Of course. Human rights should always be put to a vote. The majority never, ever tramples on the civil rights of the minority because they always understand that the freedom they demand for themselves must be extended to everyone or it means nothing, right?

By your logic, the Supreme Court's decision in Loving v. Virginia striking down miscegenation laws was completely inappropriate. After all, more than 70% of the country at the time felt that interracial marriage should be outlawed. That's more than currently think same-sex marriage should be outlawed. How dare the courts tell us what to do, right? They have no business actually interpreting the Constitution to ensure that the rights of American citizens are not abridged, right?

Loving v. Virginia was wrongly decided, right?

quote:
Or at least define marriage, unfourtunately that is not how socialism works.

"Socialism"? What on earth are you talking about. "Socialism" is an economic policy.

quote:
It was pretty funny that you called somebody a bigot because their beliefs are different than yours, when that is what biggotry is.

Incorrect. You're not about to try the discredited notion that refused to accept bigotry is bigotry, are you?

No, bigotry is when you refuse to allows other to have that which you demand for yourself.

If you don't agree with same-sex marriage, that's perfectly fine. Don't marry somebody of the same sex. Nobody is forcing you to. The equality of the law with regard to marriage does not make anybody do anything they don't want to do nor does it deprive anybody of anything other people have.

Trying to have special rights for straight people, on the other hand, is bigotry. You are perfectly free to think that marrying someone of the same sex is horrible and icky. The Catholic church thinks that divorce is horrible and icky and nobody forces them to marry divorcees. Plenty of people think marrying someone of another race is horrible and icky and nobody forces them to do so.

But just because you think it is horrible and icky doesn't mean you get to stop someone else from enjoying the same rights you insist upon having for yourself.

"With liberty and justice for all," ends the Pledge of Allegiance.

What part of "for all" is so hard to understand?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-08-2008 9:02 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 454 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 9:11 AM Rrhain has taken no action

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3459 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 452 of 519 (474540)
07-09-2008 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by lyx2no
07-08-2008 10:21 PM


Re: Not Everything is Open to a Vote
speaking of representative avatars, look in the mirror.
BTW that is not me.

I didn't ask for a popular vote, i feel my congressman represents me just fine. thanks for the broad assumption though, quite a bit simple of you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by lyx2no, posted 07-08-2008 10:21 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by lyx2no, posted 07-09-2008 9:28 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3459 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 453 of 519 (474541)
07-09-2008 8:58 AM


quote:
I'm not particularly surprised that someone from Virginia would like to see popular vote trump the Constitution, given Virginia's history of discriminatory treatment of the right to marriage.

Im not from Virginia, but i do live here. and its not about popular vote, then the urban centers would run this country more than they already do.

Edited by Artemis Entreri, : bad html


Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3459 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 454 of 519 (474542)
07-09-2008 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Rrhain
07-09-2008 2:16 AM


quote:
Of course. Human rights should always be put to a vote. The majority never, ever tramples on the civil rights of the minority because they always understand that the freedom they demand for themselves must be extended to everyone or it means nothing, right?

By your logic, the Supreme Court's decision in Loving v. Virginia striking down miscegenation laws was completely inappropriate. After all, more than 70% of the country at the time felt that interracial marriage should be outlawed. That's more than currently think same-sex marriage should be outlawed. How dare the courts tell us what to do, right? They have no business actually interpreting the Constitution to ensure that the rights of American citizens are not abridged, right?

Loving v. Virginia was wrongly decided, right?


yep.
the Lovings could have moved to a different state.
states rights, bro.

quote:
If you don't agree with same-sex marriage, that's perfectly fine. Don't marry somebody of the same sex. Nobody is forcing you to. The equality of the law with regard to marriage does not make anybody do anything they don't want to do nor does it deprive anybody of anything other people have.

Trying to have special rights for straight people, on the other hand, is bigotry. You are perfectly free to think that marrying someone of the same sex is horrible and icky. The Catholic church thinks that divorce is horrible and icky and nobody forces them to marry divorcees. Plenty of people think marrying someone of another race is horrible and icky and nobody forces them to do so.



I was actually talking about defining the word marriage as it was originally meant to be defined. unfourtunately in all those marriage laws and rulings (even your so oftenly quoted Loving v. Virginia) it was assumed the marriage was between a man and a women. If Mildred Loving was a man, do you think the ruling would have went the same way? All im saying is let's just define the word in law, as most of us (70%+ according to you), know what it means. I could care less if two d00dz want to be together, but lets call it something else. can you marry your cat? does marriage have to be with a human? if there is no set legal definition then you could interpret it in what ever crazy manner you wanted.

you are all hung up on the wrong issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Rrhain, posted 07-09-2008 2:16 AM Rrhain has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by kjsimons, posted 07-09-2008 9:17 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 759
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 455 of 519 (474543)
07-09-2008 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 454 by Artemis Entreri
07-09-2008 9:11 AM


yep.
the Lovings could have moved to a different state.
states rights, bro.

You do know that they did move, actually they were given the option of jail or moving out of state. States, as the Supreme Court has ruled, do not have the right to deny basic human rights.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 9:11 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 462 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 5:17 PM kjsimons has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 3947 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 456 of 519 (474545)
07-09-2008 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Artemis Entreri
07-09-2008 8:53 AM


Miss Points much?
Okay fine, not a popular vote. Would you want anyone other than yourself voting to decide the minutia of your everyday life? I mean other than your mom who sets out your Geranimals in the morning.


Kindly

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞

Everyone deserves a neatly dug grave. It is the timing that's in dispute.

牛持ちでない方は、男です。


This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 8:53 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 5:13 PM lyx2no has replied

petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 457 of 519 (474556)
07-09-2008 10:05 AM


This is all about taxes
I support allowing marriage of anyone to any sex with as many people as you like.

Anything less is facist BS.

(As anyone with half a brain knows, the only person you can transfer money, property etc. to without tax liability, is to your spouse (ask John Kerry the Ketchup Queen gave him $173 million tax free). If we allow marrige to anyone in any number it will be possible for me, by getting married and then divorced to live my entire life without having to pay income tax. A quick example, I write a novel and someone wishes to buy the movie rights for 6 million....we don't do that .....instead get married......later when we find out we can't "communicate"...get divorced...and surprise in the property settlement I get 6 million tax free and he gets the movie rights. So, support GAY Marriage. Only problem is how long do you think the Democrats will let this tax windfall go on and what will they do to stop it. Maybe you should think about that.)


Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 11:27 AM petrophysics1 has taken no action
 Message 459 by lyx2no, posted 07-09-2008 12:02 PM petrophysics1 has taken no action

subbie
Member (Idle past 485 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 458 of 519 (474571)
07-09-2008 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 457 by petrophysics1
07-09-2008 10:05 AM


Re: This is all about taxes
quote:
Only problem is how long do you think the Democrats will let this tax windfall go on and what will they do to stop it.

Wow.

So, all these so-called family value wingnuts who pander to the anti gay marriage crowd all the time are actually RINO democrats who oppose gay marriage for tax reasons.

*blink*

*blink*

Just . . . . wow.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by petrophysics1, posted 07-09-2008 10:05 AM petrophysics1 has taken no action

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 3947 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 459 of 519 (474574)
07-09-2008 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by petrophysics1
07-09-2008 10:05 AM


Re: This is all about taxes
Why would they give you the six million dollars when they can use a small portion of that six million on a divorce lawyer to take the movie rights? (Or any of a thousand other doors that would be open to the less stupid of the parties in your little schema.) Did you really think you had a brilliant point to bring us all up short, or were you being entirely facetious?


Kindly

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞

Everyone deserves a neatly dug grave. It is the timing that's in dispute.

牛持ちでない方は、男です。


This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by petrophysics1, posted 07-09-2008 10:05 AM petrophysics1 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-09-2008 1:41 PM lyx2no has taken no action

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 460 of 519 (474584)
07-09-2008 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by lyx2no
07-09-2008 12:02 PM


Re: This is all about taxes
Why would they give you the six million dollars when they can use a small portion of that six million on a divorce lawyer to take the movie rights? (Or any of a thousand other doors that would be open to the less stupid of the parties in your little schema.) Did you really think you had a brilliant point to bring us all up short, or were you being entirely facetious?

They coulda had a pre-nup.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by lyx2no, posted 07-09-2008 12:02 PM lyx2no has taken no action

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3459 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 461 of 519 (474610)
07-09-2008 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by lyx2no
07-09-2008 9:28 AM


Re: Miss Points much?
quote:
Okay fine, not a popular vote. Would you want anyone other than yourself voting to decide the minutia of your everyday life? I mean other than your mom who sets out your Geranimals in the morning.

nope.

BTW its your mom who takes care of me every morning ;)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by lyx2no, posted 07-09-2008 9:28 AM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by lyx2no, posted 07-09-2008 6:37 PM Artemis Entreri has taken no action

Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3459 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 462 of 519 (474613)
07-09-2008 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by kjsimons
07-09-2008 9:17 AM


quote:
You do know that they did move, actually they were given the option of jail or moving out of state. States, as the Supreme Court has ruled, do not have the right to deny basic human rights.

marrying black chicks is a basic human right!?!

roflmfao


This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by kjsimons, posted 07-09-2008 9:17 AM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 6:01 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
 Message 470 by kjsimons, posted 07-10-2008 8:49 AM Artemis Entreri has taken no action

subbie
Member (Idle past 485 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 463 of 519 (474622)
07-09-2008 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 462 by Artemis Entreri
07-09-2008 5:17 PM


quote:
marrying black chicks is a basic human right!?!

roflmfao


Why shouldn't it be? And why do you laugh, nothing intelligent to say?


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-09-2008 5:17 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-10-2008 8:58 AM subbie has taken no action

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 464 of 519 (474624)
07-09-2008 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 448 by Artemis Entreri
07-08-2008 9:02 PM


I wish they would just let us vote on this issue

Seems the most democratic thing to do.

It was pretty funny that you called somebody a bigot because their beliefs are different than yours, when that is what biggotry is.

Shhhhhhh.... Stop making sense. That's not allowed here.


“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by subbie, posted 07-09-2008 6:18 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 469 by FliesOnly, posted 07-10-2008 8:05 AM Hyroglyphx has taken no action

subbie
Member (Idle past 485 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 465 of 519 (474625)
07-09-2008 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Hyroglyphx
07-09-2008 6:14 PM


quote:
Seems the most democratic thing to do.

Ever heard of the Constitution?


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-09-2008 6:14 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-09-2008 9:42 PM subbie has replied

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