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Author | Topic: The impossibility of infinite ability..aka "god" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
...oh man, go post that in the bicamerality thread.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Thenaturalist writes: So, are we parts of god, like New York and Los Angeles are parts of the U.S.? Some people believe we are, but that's irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that God doen't have to move if He's already everywhere. You haven't dealt with that at all. Once again, the concept of movement is nonsensical when we're talking about a God who is EVERYWHERE There's no "place" for Him to move "to" or "from". He's already there. You're just making your own little straw version of a god that has to move from place to place. Congratulations on knocking the stuffing out of it. But you haven't dealt at all with the concept of God that people actually have. “If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT (see context here) “The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs
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tesla Member (Idle past 1592 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
ok. i understand now i think. you don't believe in God.
time doesn't prove God is not, yet you want to tell people who do believe in God that their belief in his abilities is silly because time exists, which means that your trying to say because of time, there is no God? ok..i confused myself. I'm not sure your motive, but as already pointed out, God is defined by most as being everywhere. i think this might help you understand the view, i call it, the publican and the scientist: the publican and the scientist: setting: a small hill outside a bustling city. two men are seated near a small tree, one is a publican, the other is a scientist. publican: i wish it were possible to see God. scientist: i see God all the time. publican: what!? how can you say such a thing? scientist: energy cannot be created or destroyed. that means all that i see has come from the very body of God. publican: with all the filth, and sin and evils in the world, do you really think that God would want that as a part of his body? scientist: i do not claim to know why God does what he does, i am simply making an observation. keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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TheNaturalist Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 86 Joined: |
Some people believe we are, but that's irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that God doen't have to move if He's already everywhere. You haven't dealt with that at all. Once again, the concept of movement is nonsensical when we're talking about a God who is EVERYWHERE There's no "place" for Him to move "to" or "from". He's already there. You're just making your own little straw version of a god that has to move from place to place. Congratulations on knocking the stuffing out of it. But you haven't dealt at all with the concept of God that people actually have. Even if god is everywhere, he would still have to move to cause something to happen. If the universe were the size of my body, and I was everywhere in the universe at the same time or whatever, if I couldnt move, I couldnt do anything. Id just be there, not a causer of anything without action. And secondly, how the hell does god be everywhere and not be noticed?Doesnt make sense to me. Give a reasonable schematic of the mechanism god uses to avoid being displaced by matter, or displace other matter. Unless you can do that, ALL youre saying is, "I know something exists. Its everywhere. It can do anything." I ask, "what is it? How does it do it?" You dont answer. I dont believe you. And thats how it goes down
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
TheNaturalist writes: Even if god is everywhere, he would still have to move to cause something to happen. Non sequitur. "Movement" has no meaning.
And secondly, how the hell does god be everywhere and not be noticed? That's not the topic. If you're trying to show that the God people believe in can't have infinite ability, you have to accept the properties of the God people believe in.
Doesnt make sense to me. Doesn't matter a bit what makes sense to you. Your job here is to convince us.
Give a reasonable schematic of the mechanism god uses to avoid being displaced by matter, or displace other matter. Now you're moving the goalposts. “If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT (see context here) “The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Naturalist,
TheNaturalist writes: Even if god is everywhere, he would still have to move to cause something to happen. Why? If:
Colo 1:17 (KJS) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Have fun, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If GOD created the Universe through an act of will alone, why would GOD have to move to accomplish something?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Am5n  Suspended Member (Idle past 5901 days) Posts: 106 From: New York City, New York, United States Joined: |
TN writes: Thats only your opinion. Shouldn't you be trying to convince us why God doesn't have the ability to do shit? better yet why don't you explain to us what you believe in. Even if god is everywhere, he would still have to move to cause something to happen. ps: oh I'm sorry, it's been already noted that "you believe in Naturalism".
ICANT writes: Nice choice of verse brother ICANT.
Colo 1:17 (KJS) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Ringo writes: He doesn't seem to be doing too good of a job.
Doesn't matter a bit what makes sense to you. Your job here is to convince us. jar writes:
better yet TN, why would God have to move to accomplish anything?
If GOD created the Universe through an act of will alone, why would GOD have to move to accomplish something? tesla writes:
I stand by this too. I do not claim to know why God does what he does, but I can only hope it is for the best.
scientist:I do not claim to know why God does what he does, i am simply making an observation. TN writes:
[sarcasm]Well thats a good argument.[/sarcasm] Apparently, god cant do shit. Hes worthlessas you can see a lot of the replies given to this thread, show that, God is considered to be capitalized[person,place,and thing(aka: mostly everything)]. God is my Homie G, I worship God fool. I be representing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Da King of Kings & Lord of Lords. pce out sucka! sincerely yours, Amen. Edited by Amen., : No reason given.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Precisely why I didn't promote this topic when it was presented. Whatever version of god(s) TheNat is arguing against, it appears not to represent any conception that any of our various theists here support. In other words, the answer to the proposed OP was so incredibly simple there wasn't anything to discuss. To wit, God is outside of the universe (for how could S/He/It have created something if it was inside that thing), therefore is not bound by mere physical laws like time/distance mathematics.
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TheNaturalist Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 86 Joined: |
If GOD created the Universe through an act of will alone, why would GOD have to move to accomplish something? hmmm..thats the thing: it DIDNT create the universe out of will alone and secondly, you have yet to give an arguement that god even did anything in the FIRST place other than just saying he did...over and over and over again or even any evidence for it
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
and secondly, you have yet to give an arguement that god even did anything in the FIRST place other than just saying he did...over and over and over again But of course. I freely admit that I believe in GOD and that GOD did create all that is, seen and unseen. I never try to offer proof because it is impossible to test supernatural using science. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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TheNaturalist Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 86 Joined: |
You guys have to be, well lets face it, smart enough to realize that:
if you 1.dont have a reasonable and detailed and observable schematic of how "god" works or exists like how a reasonable and detailed and observable schematic of how the Citric acid cycle works in human metabolism or a reasonable and detailed and observable schematic of how evolutionary transition works, and 2.dont show any examples of god being observed by the scientific community or other reasonable source(not a layperson, or even a group of laypeople) then all youre saying is: "hey, I know something exists". I ask, "yeah...and? point?" you say, "well it can do anything." I ask, "anything as in what?" you say, "ANYTHING. Its capable of anything." I ask, "uhhhh...well thats..interesting. What is it? How does it work?" you say, "well it doesnt work with time or mathematics" I start wondering if Im talking to a dumbass and thats the end of the story
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TheNaturalist Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 86 Joined: |
But of course. I freely admit that I believe in GOD and that GOD did create all that is, seen and unseen. I never try to offer proof because it is impossible to test supernatural using science. then you have no arguement whatsoever I feel like people are saying to me, "there are blue cat/dolphin creatures living on the third moon of xantar 284 in Andromeda".... how am I supposed to believe you? you saying that god exists is (well less, but just for the sake of convincing you Ill say no more) plausible than that above, since you claim not to be able to observe it in any way
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
how am I supposed to believe you? you saying that god exists is (well less, but just for the sake of convincing you Ill say no more) plausible than that above, since you claim not to be able to observe it in any way Why would I care whether or not you believed me? I did not say that I could not observer GOD, I said that the supernatural by definition is outside the realm of Science. GOD cannot be tested scientifically. There is no problem with someone not believing in GOD, in fact I would say that that is the reasonable and logical position. I don't expect you to accept my word and honestly would be disappointed in your abilities if you did. BUT, that has nothing to do with whether or not GOD actually exists. If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence She does not exist. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence It does exist. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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TheNaturalist Member (Idle past 5683 days) Posts: 86 Joined: |
Why would I care whether or not you believed me? I did not say that I could not observer GOD, I said that the supernatural by definition is outside the realm of Science. GOD cannot be tested scientifically. Have you ever "observed" god? And moreover, why do you think god exists?
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