The Human Body. How much pain & suffering can it take?

Ooh, I'm sorry to hear that. Lets try to be zen about the whole thing by seeking good in bad. Pain is temporary, but pride is forever. I certainly sense that the OP is trying to sneak Jesus in through the backdoor too. As to why, I don't know. Does it matter if someone suffered more or less? Isn't that subjective, anyhow?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

Subjective to a certain degree, yes. However, once you get past certain gray line, all people will suffer the same amount with the same torture.Take impalement, for example. If done right, a person can live for a week or two while having a big stake right through his body. Death really comes more from exposure to the natural elements than the impalement itself It doesn't really matter the minute differences in suffering from one person to another. Everybody suffers greatly under such condition.The chinese used to have a very cruel torture/execution method where a thousand or so pieces of flesh is cut out from a person. This could take as long as a few hours to a few days. We know everybody suffered pretty much at the same degree by the fact that the executioners painstakingly made sure that the victims didn't die before a certain number of cuts have been made. Sometimes, the executioners would suffer greatly if the victim died prematurely.Take you and me, for example. Not a single thing about us is the same (I'd cry if I ever find out we have something in common). But let say that we are both inside an old christian torture chamber during the times of inquisition. I'm pretty sure both of us would confess to just about anything (socery, sodomy, and whatnot) before they are through with us.

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Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

Your argument is that Einstein caused the atom bomb because he found out about E=MC².Jesus Christ did not cause suffering. He suffered on the cross and preached a peacable message of loving God and one's neighbour, which is clearly spoken of in the New Testament upon which there can be no equivocation through passages such as the sermon on the mount where God leaves no doubts as to what we should do to follow him.You must prove your claim that Jesus made them do it by providing quotes that tell us that Jesus instructed this.Concerning the no true scotsman fallacy, many sources infact state that it is very easy to qualify as "not X" if the predicate directly contradicts the definition.But why would I state that no true Christian would do evil? I am infact stating that Jesus himself didn't do or cause the inquisition, like Einstein didn't recommend splitting the atom. Thanks Tazbaba.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

I never said that Jesus made them do those horrible things. I said that the institution that Jesus created made people do those horrible things.Mike, ask Nemesis_Juggernaut about gay people. Ask him what he thinks. Ask Buzsaw what he thinks about gay people.I'm not laying the blame on Jesus. I'm laying the blame on Jesus's idea of having blind faith. Well, it was Einstein that wrote a letter to President Roosevelt about the possibility.But nitpicking aside, it was Jesus (or at least the writings of his disciples) that is telling buzsaw, N_J, and a great number of other people to hate. Why are you arguing with me (an atheist) when in fact you should be talking to these other christians about how they're suppose to love and all that stuff?Mike, when push comes to shove, I'm the least of your problem. It's these other christians who have a different interpretation of christ's words that you should be worried about. In fact, I don't remember you ever confronting them once.In another thread, I asked the member Gen if Jesus would have approved of what the Israelites did to the people of Jericho (killing every man, woman, and child except for the 12 year old virgin girls). Gen responded saying that everything god commanded was just, implying that Jesus would have approved of killing hundreds, if not thousands, of little infants and running swords through pregnant women. I don't remember seeing a single self-righteous christian like yourself or phat pointing out that such an act is immoral anyway you look at it. In other words, it's always us atheists that have to point out genocide is genocide no matter if it was god who commanded it or not. To believe that god commanded the people of Israel to commit genocide is... you figure the word to describe it.Do you not see what kind of impression about god these other christians are giving us atheists? Do you not see why we assume people like you agree with them because of your silence?Mike, if you really are as good as you claim to be, stop arguing with me and start arguing with these other christians who believe genocide is justified when god ordered it. I'm just sick and tired of seeing people like you agreeing with them by your silence.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

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Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

Morals. What are they? Relative I'm told.Did you know that if you state that they are relative, you can no longer complain about the bible, logically? Did you know that?You can deduce that very easily. Know how?Because as soon as you say morals are relative, then who's morals are right?Hitlers? Taz's? The reasonable folk? The guy on the soapbox down the street?One atheist complains of slavery in the bible. Another the condemnation of homosexuality. Yesteryear it was fine to be homophobe, before that it was acceptable to be racist. Now it isn't. Such are the whims of self-righteous society and it's rights.What this tells me is that I had better not place my faith in human morals as they seem to change all of the time! But Christ doesn't change. And Buz - and Nem, what have they said? Have they judged gays? I don't think so. They merely state belief in unchanging biblical morals. But to me, they're not doing anything wrong. I haven't bought into the epithets you use against them. I don't believe they have hate, or that they are bigots like you do. I don't judge them.Now even if Jesus created the church,(which he didn't directly) it was according to those principles in the New Testament. The church doesn't become, "the inquisition evils". Those acts merely highlight the failure of some so called Christians.I'm afraid if you fear my silence, then that is warranted. For you shall unlikely find me agreeing with the lies spread concerning people like Nem and Buz.Yet don't see me as your enemy. I merely defended Christ.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Actually, I've been saying this many times now. I'm a moral absolutist. So, most of the rest of your post don't apply. Ok, mike. I don't see you as my enemy, not personally anyway. I do see you as an enemy of humanity as a whole. Don't ask. It's complicated.

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Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

Yes, Mike, just ask me. That makes no sense to me. I'm not blaming Jesus, I'm just blaming his concepts? What exactly is the difference? Excuse me!?!?!? Who do I hate, Taz? Hatred is ungodly, unhealthy, and unproductive. As for what Jesus and his disciples say, according to the writings:"If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." -1^st John 4:20"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." -Luke 6:27-28"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." -John 15:18-19"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

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Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

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Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written:

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Every time a "Christian" comes on the board and starts blurting invective, I talk with them and tell them to remember their duty. What they do after that is up to them. First of all, you are now flatly contradicting yourself. You just said, quote:

quote:

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it was Jesus (or at least the writings of his disciples) that is telling buzsaw, N_J, and a great number of other people to hate.

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Secondly, I think its evident at this point that you don't have a strong grasp on the writings yourself. If you are going to chastize others on Christian theology, at least be knowledgeable and consistent. In your rejoinder, you just spoke about Christian self-righteousness, and now you are praising atheist self-righteousness, presumably because you think atheists would never commit an act of genocide. You are making yourself out to be God, Taz, by presuming far beyond what is justified. I don't quite know what Mike believes, but as for me, I will trust in whatever reason the Judge judges. "Will not the Judge of the earth do right?"You may not be able to wrap your mind around it. And that's okay. Those aren't easy scriptures. The problem of evil and the difference between OT and NT times is a burdensome stone for Christians to carry. But for you to sit there and piously scold Mike, who isn't here all that often to begin with, and say that I hate in the name of God, well, you'd better have some sort of justification for doing so.You who denounce hate, do you hate? You've flat out told me before that you do. Now you audaciously slander me, continue to misrepresent what I say, and all for, what, exactly?

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“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

I was just on wikipedia and found this Crucifixion - Wikipedia
I read the whole whole thing. enjoy.