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Author Topic:   governor of ohio removes abstinence-only program from budget
macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 62 (391233)
03-23-2007 11:22 PM


[link]

BY JON CRAIG
(Cincinnati) Enquirer

COLUMBUS - Gov. Ted Strickland's proposed $53 billion budget eliminates an abstinence-only sex-education program.

Removal of $1 million in state aid over two years marks a shift in Ohio support for abstinence-only programs, which advocates call a national model.

The federally subsidized program encourages schoolchildren to abstain from sex until they're married.

Strickland said he thinks abstinence programs don't work well in the long run and does not plan to apply for federal money after current funding ends Sept. 30.

"The governor believes that, considering the very challenging budget environment we find ourselves in, that this is an unwise use of tax dollars because there is no conclusive evidence that suggests the program works," Strickland spokesman Keith Dailey said.

Strickland has proposed other child programs, including pre-kindergarten and all-day kindergarten, which would help children start off better in school, Dailey said.

The governor could be headed toward a legislative showdown during budget hearings, state Rep. Bill Seitz, R-Green Township, said.

"If you eliminate abstinence-only, what does he propose to replace it with?" Seitz asked.

"I think it would be rough sledding to substitute an abstinence-only program that is working to some degree with a free-condoms-for-everybody program that would be quite controversial."

Carole Adlard, director of Cincinnati-based Healthy Visions, said, "It's very easy to say it doesn't work when (Strickland) doesn't have anything to support it."

Adlard said births to teenage girls in Cincinnati fell by 51 percent from 1993's 391 to 2005, when there were 193.

"When you've got independent people coming back and saying this is the impact it's had ... that's not feelings, it's statistics," Adlard said.

"You can't argue with numbers."

Healthy Visions is one of four providers of abstinence education to about 25,000 students in 43 school districts in Hamilton, Butler, Warren and Clermont counties.

Ken Blackwell, the former Cincinnati mayor whom Strickland defeated for governor last year, stressed the importance of abstinence-only education Thursday before a speech about marriage.

"Unless you're totally giving up on character development of our young people, abstinence education is a must," Blackwell said. "I believe that young people of character can overtake instincts to engage in premarital sex."

Blackwell would not discuss specifics of Strickland's first budget plan but said the governor is "abandoning our young people. . . . He's not just abandoning programs. He's abandoning our youth."

Blackwell now works as a fellow with the Buckeye Institute in Columbus and Family Research Council in Washington, D.C.

Ohio abstinence groups have received $23.7 million in federal dollars in the past three years, according to the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States. The state has contributed $500,000 a year, in addition to running programs through the Governor's Office on Faith-based and Community Initiatives.

Statewide, teen pregnancy rates have dropped from 42.3 pregnancies for every 1,000 females ages 10 to 19 in 1997 to 33.1 in 2005.

Under a 1999 Ohio law, public schools must stress in health courses that abstinence is the only surefire way to prevent pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases and HIV. But the programs have increasingly come under fire. A U.S. General Accounting Office report last fall said little oversight or analysis is done to see that federally funded abstinence programs are effective.

The Associated Press contributed.

this article does not discuss the issues that even usa today cited in the half a sentence about it in the "news from every state" section.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/16953676.htm

Governor's budget would end abstinence-only dollars
Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Gov. Ted Strickland's proposed budget strips funding for programs that focus on teaching schoolchildren abstinence from sex until they're married.

The removal of $1 million in state aid to abstinence-only education marks a shift in state support for programs that advocates say serve as a national model.

The administration says it also has no plans to apply for federal money for the programs after the current funding ends Sept. 30.

"Quite frankly, I don't believe abstinence-only education programs work in the long run," Strickland told the Dayton Daily News. "There is some evidence that they may delay the onset of sexual activity, but over the long term there's not data there that show they prevent, in a statistical sense, sexual activity outside of marriage."

The governor could be headed toward a legislative showdown on the matter.

"That's one where he's likely to find a lot of legislative opposition to what he's trying to do," said State Rep. Jay Hottinger, a member of the majority Republican caucus.

Ohio abstinence groups have received $23.7 million in federal dollars over the last three years, according to the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States. The state has contributed $500,000 a year, in addition to running programs through the Gov.'s Office on Faith-based and Community Initiatives.

"It's a significant and important shift in policy," said Earl Pike, executive director of the AIDS Taskforce of Greater Cleveland and a critic of abstinence-only programs.

Rachel Sacksteder, education director at the nonprofit Elizabeth's New Life Center in Dayton, said her facility's anti-abortion, pro-abstinence message is showing results.

The center has used its $800,000 a year in federal funding to reach 23,000 youths in a six-county area. Sacksteder said teen pregnancy rates are dropping.

Statewide, teen pregnancy rates have dropped from 42.3 pregnancies for every 1,000 females ages 10 to 19 in 1997 to 33.1 in 2005.

"We do see students that have been able to change their lives," she said.

Under a 1999 Ohio law, public schools must stress in health courses that abstinence is the only surefire way to prevent pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases and HIV.

Tai Hethcock, director of the Abstinence Resource Centre in Dayton, said that law has contributed to Ohio being a national leader in abstinence education.

But the programs have increasingly come under fire. A U.S. General Accounting Office report last fall said little oversight or analysis is done to see that federally funded abstinence programs are effective. And Case Western Reserve University report in 2005 blasted Ohio's abstinence-only classes as disseminating false information about contraceptives and abortion and representing religious views as fact.

"I believe in a comprehensive approach," Strickland said. "I think, obviously, abstinence should be a part of any education curriculum, but I think young people need to be educated in ways that can protect their health and their safety."


http://www.lifenews.com/state2178.html

Ohio Governor and Pro-Life Advocates Square Off on Abstinence Funding
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 22, 2007
Columbus, OH (LifeNews.com) -- Ohio Governor Ted Strickland wants to cut out state funding for abstinence education -- a move that is drawing criticism from pro-life groups and legislators. The pro-abortion Democrat has proposed a new budge that entirely eliminates the $500,000 the state normally spends annually on encouraging kids to practice abstinence.

A spokesman for the governor says Strickland will not apply for any more federal funds for abstinence education for future budgets.

The Western Star newspaper carried a quote from the governor about his decision.

"Quite frankly, I don't believe abstinence-only education programs work in the long run," Strickland said.

"There is some evidence that they may delay the onset of sexual activity, but over the long term there's not data there that show they prevent, in a statistical sense, sexual activity outside of marriage," he claimed.

However, the governor's allegation doesn't square with the facts.

Abstinence education groups have spent $23.7 million in federal funds with $5 million of that going through the state health department. The state has been spending $500,000 annually to go along with those grants.

The money has paid dividends as teen pregnancy rates have been on the decline -- dropping from 42.3 pregnancies per 1,000 girls aged 10-19 in 1997 to 33.1 in 2005.

The programs have been helped by a 1999 state law requiring local school districts to adopt cirriculum promoting abstinence.

The Ohio state legislature will be considering the state budget in the next few months and pro-life lawmakers will likely try to insert the funding back into the budget.

Pro-life groups are already lining up to lobby state legislators to restore the money and Paula Westwood, the director of Right to Life of Greater Cincinnati, told LifeNews.com in an email that Ohio residents want abstinence funding.

She also says abstinence education programs work and help teenagers avoid various consequences.

"Young single women who engage in sexual activity outside marriage are most at-risk for pregnancies ending in abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, abuse by predatory men, and more," Westwood said.

Related web sites:
Right to Life of Greater Cincinnati - http://www.cincinnatirighttolife.org

i remember when i was in high school. we were taught that condoms cannot protect you from stds at all because the pores in the latex are too large. this was, i suppose, supposed to keep us from having sex. it contributed to students having sex without condoms. why should a guy lose sensation after all if it doesn't actually do anything?

it is my opinion that abstinence is a vital part of a sex education program. not having sex is an easy way to ensure that you don't get pregnant. however, passing off lies and dogma as scientific fact is not only wrong, it's destructive. the only way to ensure that women don't get pregnant before they want to is to empower them. you can't empower them against men who want to put their penises in them by lying to them. if you want to reduce sexual abuse of women, you're not going to accomplish it by telling them to avoid sex befpre marriage. abuse isn't consentual. abuse happens against the wishes of women. abuse happens because people raise their sons to believe they are entitled to get into girls' pants for various reasons in various circumstances. if you want to reduce pregnancy, abuse, abortions, whatever without giving people condoms, start teaching boys that they are never entitled to anything from a girl and only receive any kind of sexual activity at the considered and unpressured discretion of a woman who has no responsibility whatsoever nor any obligation no matter what happens or is suggested or teased or anything else to provide that boy with any stimulation or satisfaction whatsoever. after thousands of years of women not owning their own vaginas, the only solution is for men to be taught that they have no claim over any woman's vagina ever.

not to mention that abstinence only programs only delay sexual activity by like 2 years and imcrease instances of oral, anal, and other alternative and "deviant" practices.

anyways. i digress.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by subbie, posted 03-24-2007 1:24 AM macaroniandcheese has responded
 Message 4 by Percy, posted 03-24-2007 9:44 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

subbie
Member (Idle past 33 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 2 of 62 (391242)
03-24-2007 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
03-23-2007 11:22 PM


not to mention that abstinence only programs ... i[n]crease instances of oral, anal, and other alternative and "deviant" practices.

Well, there's one positive result anyway. ;)


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2217 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 3 of 62 (391254)
03-24-2007 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by subbie
03-24-2007 1:24 AM


*blushes*

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Percy
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Posts: 18875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
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Message 4 of 62 (391281)
03-24-2007 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
03-23-2007 11:22 PM


Hi Brenna,

A couple things. First, do you (or anyone) know anything about the accuracy of those statistics, or of what experts in this area feel are the significant contributing factors? A 51% decrease over 12 years seems incredibly dramatic. It's hard to believe that even storm troopers patrolling the back seats of automobiles across the state could achieve such a high success rate.

Second, while I want to be clear that I'm against the abuse of women, one of the things I've learned while raising a boy and a girl is the sheer enthusiasm with which both approach the idea of a penis in a vagina.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 519
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 5 of 62 (391330)
03-24-2007 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
03-24-2007 9:44 AM


Teenage pregnancy declining across country.
I think you have to be careful here not to conclude that the schools teaching 'abstinence-only' education means that 'abstinence-only' is the only sex education the kids are getting. Even with a thorough sex education program started at en early age, I suspect that the majority of the kids sex education is coming from friends, siblings, and the internet. To determine the effectiveness of the Ohio program, it should be compared to those of other states with different approaches, particularly states with that teach sex education honestly. I understand that the entire country is experiencing a significant decline in teenage pregnancy. I also wonder if the disagreement between the governor and the pro-lifers is based on comparing apples and oranges, the pro-lifers measuring the immediate impact of the program while the girls are still in school and the governor looking at the long term impact.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2217 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 62 (391355)
03-24-2007 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
03-24-2007 9:44 AM


i have absolutely no idea of the reliability of those statistics. but, if they are true, i really highly doubt that abstinence only education could have that strong of an impact in cincinnati. it's really like suggesting a 50% drop in drug use in LA from 'just say no'.

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 62 (391582)
03-26-2007 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
03-24-2007 9:44 AM


First, do you (or anyone) know anything about the accuracy of those statistics, or of what experts in this area feel are the significant contributing factors? A 51% decrease over 12 years seems incredibly dramatic.

The second article doesn't seem to contradict that claim, but it does support the opposition that says abstinence doesn't work in the long run.

quote:
Statewide, teen pregnancy rates have dropped from 42.3 pregnancies for every 1,000 females ages 10 to 19 in 1997 to 33.1 in 2005.

That would only be a 22% drop. So for the 51% figure to be accurate, there would have had to have been a 38% drop between 1993 and 1997. (67.5/1000 to 42.3/1000.) So even if the statistics are taken at face value, the rate of success seems, at best, to have had a strong early success, and to now be slowing.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 8 of 62 (391768)
03-27-2007 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
03-24-2007 9:44 AM


Second, while I want to be clear that I'm against the abuse of women, one of the things I've learned while raising a boy and a girl is the sheer enthusiasm with which both approach the idea of a penis in a vagina.

And just what would you attest that too?

The other day a gym teacher handed my kid 3 cd's of rap music, so he could download them into his ipod. At least half of those songs contained curses, and lyrics that talk about sex. My son is 12. I am a little pissed off right now.

From that to MTV, video games with violence and sex, and TV in general, even the disney channel has kids kissing kids on it. What else will our kids learn to do, and what will they then crave?


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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 62 (391772)
03-27-2007 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 10:46 AM


From that to MTV, video games with violence and sex, and TV in general, even the disney channel has kids kissing kids on it. What else will our kids learn to do, and what will they then crave?

Little known fact about biology... a teenager will not become sexually aroused until they see two kids kissing on the Disney Channel. The human race came very close to extinction before the invention of cable TV, because our bodies refused to become sexually aroused before Lizzie McGuire told us it was okay.

Especially in the teenage years which, as we all know, are like the hormonal equivalent of dumping a bucket of ice water on the nethers. No teenager has ever been aroused by, say, watching paint dry, or counting linoleum tiles.

Edited by Dan Carroll, : for extra snark


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 10 of 62 (391780)
03-27-2007 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 10:46 AM


Kids need REAL sex education.
I think that this argument is one of the most destructive attitudes parents can have towards their kids. You cannot protect your children from reality no matter what generation you live in. If it is not rap music then it is the Beatles, or the swing dancing, or one piece swim suits, or dresses that reveal a ladies ankles.

I am sure that you have a very good reason to be angry at your son's gym teacher and by no means do I have any right to question your parenting but don't you think it would have been better had you shown your son what popular fads are and why you agree or disagree with them?

Again, not to question your parenting, me and my family are certainly not perfect in the slightest, but I was growing up I was curious about lots of things that my parents thought were disgusting. For me it was death metal music, violent video games, and rather than trying to shield me from these things my parents guided me through my discovery of them. I was able to explore these enticing aspects of reality without fear of reprisal or censorship. My mom would consistently say to other people who were critical of this type of parenting that she would rather know exactly what kind of music and entertainment I engaged in, exactly who my friends were, and be able to talk to me about those things then have me do all that behind her back. Adolescents WILL figure out a way to investigate the shadier aspects of the world with or without their parents consent. While people looked down at my mom for such an attitude I was borrowing their kid's secret Megadeth and Pantera CDs.

This applies to sex education in the exact same way. To many parents have either no interest or don't think it is their responsibility to guide their kids about the topics and real world issues that they will inevitably be exposed to. They are more concerned with sheltering and censoring their kids than explaining how they should approach their curiosity and new discoveries in a healthy and ethical way. So while I might have been a goth kid, I never did drugs, I kept IT in my pants until I was ready, I graduated 2nd in my class, and went on to have a successful college and professional career.

This country does not have a problem with "sex education". This country has a problem with parental accountability on a NUMBER of topics and sex education is just a social bandaid to try to make up for where our culture has failed. Not to say that we should abandon it because until there is a universal moral in our society to correct the underlying problem, public sex education is absolutly necessary. I don't think anyone would disagree that it would be better for kids to be getting this information from their family than from school. But they need to get it somewhere.

Abstinence only education is a proven failure. Kids WILL wonder where that "thingi" goes regardless if their music of choice is Ringo Star, Elvis, or 50 cent. I am willing to bet that if you removed all music, TV, video games, and advertisements from our culture and replaced it with classical music, Sessame Street, and Canasta that you would still have the exact same problems with teen pregnancy today as long as parents, or the school system as a surrogate, are taking a hands off approach to REAL sex education.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2217 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 62 (391812)
03-27-2007 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by riVeRraT
03-27-2007 10:46 AM


how many kids do you think learn to masturbate from the disney channel? how many kids do you think masturbate?
when do you think they start?

most people i know thought they were geniuses when they "invented" masturbation. do you think that after kids invent this and discover that walking by someone of the opposite sex gives them a little of the same feeling that they aren't going to figure out that fiddling with said person will do more? do you think that two kids living in a cave wouldn't figure out how to bone?

are you really, honestly deluded enough to think that kids only know what they are taught?


This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4653
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 12 of 62 (391816)
03-27-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by macaroniandcheese
03-27-2007 3:10 PM


how many kids do you think learn to masturbate from the disney channel?

Well, let me think, here. The Disney Channel is primarily a US phenomenon (give or take some minor international forays) and defining "kids" as under 18, I would say about 8,374,293.

how many kids do you think masturbate?

Masterbation not being primarily a US phenomenon, then internationally, again under 18, I would say about 937,641,018 with an error bar of about 10%.

when do you think they start?

Usually about 6-6:30am local time.


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 13 of 62 (391897)
03-27-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dan Carroll
03-27-2007 10:56 AM


Before cable TV?

Thats when the life expectency of people were like around 30 years old?
THen it would be necessary to be like that.

But seriously, there is a line between be able to have sex, and being responsible enough to have sex. 12 year children are not responsible enough. And they are doing it for all the wrong reasons, which leads to things like that which brenna speaks of.

Ever see the forty year old virgin? If you think that all people automatically become sexually active when reaching a certain age, your living in a dream world.

No teenager has ever been aroused by, say, watching paint dry, or counting linoleum tiles.

You speak from experience?


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 14 of 62 (391901)
03-27-2007 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jazzns
03-27-2007 11:52 AM


Re: Kids need REAL sex education.
I am sure that you have a very good reason to be angry at your son's gym teacher and by no means do I have any right to question your parenting but don't you think it would have been better had you shown your son what popular fads are and why you agree or disagree with them?

Of course I did. My son's will learn everything from me, before they learn it from the world.

I haven't done anything to that teacher yet, because I am so pissed right now, I feel she should loose her job. Instead of reacting, I am waiting to cool off, so I can act.

This applies to sex education in the exact same way. To many parents have either no interest or don't think it is their responsibility to guide their kids about the topics and real world issues that they will inevitably be exposed to.

I already taught all that to my kid, before the school gave their version of it. Not saying that their version of it is wrong, I raher enjoyed my sex ed classes, and learned much from them, but they didn't teach me everything. Plus am I to trust teachers if they are giving my kids RATED material, that they shouldn't be listening to yet?

My kids are free to do whatever they want, as long as it meets the ratings, and they are passing there classes, and off drugs. If they watch a movie that is above their rating, I am there with them, to explain anything that they might not yet get yet.

I am willing to bet that if you removed all music, TV, video games, and advertisements from our culture and replaced it with classical music, Sessame Street, and Canasta that you would still have the exact same problems with teen pregnancy today as long as parents, or the school system as a surrogate, are taking a hands off approach to REAL sex education.

I understand why you feel that way, and I agree with you to an extent, but I would take that bet. from my conversations with older folk (older than me) things were much different back then (not saying back then was better) But the age at which most of this crazy stuff starts happening, seems to be happening a lot earlier. Even in the last 20 years.
there sure is a lot more to look at (sexual content) now for a young person, than there was back then, or even back to the pin-up days.
IF a young person is surrounded by obsenities, then it thats what becomes life for them.

I mean after all, it's ok to shove sexual content down our young generations throats, because we have abortion, so who cares?


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 15 of 62 (391902)
03-27-2007 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by macaroniandcheese
03-27-2007 3:10 PM


My response has nothing to do with what your saying brenna.
Masterbation cannot be stopped. IT certainly won't be, if we keep telling everyone it's ok to masterbate.

Ever think for a second that it's not ok? I stopped once for 3 months, it was very peaceful time in my life. I can honestly say that I am addicted to it. Maybe because I was always taught it was ok.

My post was about the psychological affects of this world on our younger generation, that leads to all the things you are against, but of course you could not see that, since your caught up in it maybe.

Where do you think kids learn to mis-treat woman, if its not their own parents?


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