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Author Topic:   The beginning of the jihad in Europe?
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 109 of 301 (258161)
11-09-2005 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by randman
11-09-2005 10:52 AM


Re: How about MLK,jr?
The big difference being that he was not enacting religious change.
I think using religion to motivate people to do good and be active in government is a wonderful thing. Just as long as they aren't trying to establish a religion or policy in congruence with explicitly religious principles (prayer in school, state sponsored religious activites, etc).
In MLK Jr's case it was the fight simply to establish equal rights under the secular US Constitution.

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by randman, posted 11-09-2005 10:52 AM randman has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 110 of 301 (258165)
11-09-2005 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by randman
11-09-2005 10:58 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world, and not the Christian one
You are correct Randman. I agree with your entire post. I think though you and Yaro are speaking past each other a bit. I think this may be because there is no real way to test what exactly is legislating religion.
What MLK Jr was doing is clearly not legislating religion. Congress adding 'under god' to the pledge clearly is.

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by randman, posted 11-09-2005 10:58 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by randman, posted 11-09-2005 3:26 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 123 by CanadianSteve, posted 11-09-2005 4:54 PM Jazzns has not replied

Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 116 of 301 (258180)
11-09-2005 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by randman
11-09-2005 3:26 PM


Re: Why Religion in government
And when you think of how Congress has always had a Christian chaplain, I really think the Consitution should be read more strictly as referring to governmental legislation not governmental participation. In other words, it's not wrong to open every legislative session with prayers in the name of Jesus, even though that involves a clear preference for Christianity over other religions, because there are no laws being passed concerning religion. That's the way I look at it.
While I TEND to agree that it is not a violation of the letter of the Establishment Clause I look at it from a position of ethics. If the legislative body is not supposed to be establishing a religion then the prayer is a bit dubious with regards to its purpose.
That being said, I encourage prayer. I encourage our leaders to pray. I just don't think it should be on the agenda.
Where I think you and Yaro are missing each other is simply motivation versus action. I don't think anyone disagrees that MLK used religion to motivate his cause. But his agenda was not a religious one such as some we are seeing today (gay marriage, gay adoption bans, abortion, ID in education, etc).

No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by randman, posted 11-09-2005 3:26 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by randman, posted 11-09-2005 4:35 PM Jazzns has not replied

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