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Author Topic:   Prostitution-what to do
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 301 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 162 (401666)
05-21-2007 7:27 AM


Prostitutes must have a special place in Heaven.
Prostitutes. male or female, are products of abuse by our societies. These young people come out of homes where physical, mental and sexual abuse has occurred. They are basically forced from their environment to the streets.
The societal response to these abused people is rather strange. We create them and then use our police and laws to further abuse our sons and daughters legally. We do provide social services on occasion but most of our response is negative. We drive them to a lifestyle of drugs and slavery under pimps and use police to try to hide our own shame in a forgotten cell.
What should people do. Having created this trade, should we now use them and abuse them more or should we let them starve or find some other criminal activity in order to live.
Are we paying them for our gratification or is the payment to ease our conscience for creating them.
Do some of us use them with compassion because we recognize that they are our creation? Or am I trying to justify their existence. In countries where poverty is rampant and children are sold by their own parents, can it be said that this is good in order to maintain a family structure. Is it OK to go to some of these places of poverty and contribute to their economy. Not availing ourselves of this product do we help the country to stay poor.
The same weird situation exists where child labor occurs. If we do not buy the carpet woven by the eight year old, does his family then go hungry.
There is good and evil in everything, can we clear up the view of this problem and know the best course of action?
Does survival of the fittest include the ability to use and abuse our own children. We tend to continue with these unsightly customs regardless of the wealth of a given nation. Would wealth and education put an end to these practices? It appears not.
Question for debate.
Is it better to avail one’s self of the services of a prostitute to help them survive, or is there a better way.
Please do not say things like ending poverty without telling us how.
Impossible solutions are not solutions.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 11:13 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 4 by jar, posted 05-22-2007 12:28 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 05-22-2007 5:41 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 87 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-25-2007 3:37 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
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Message 2 of 162 (401793)
05-22-2007 7:32 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 162 (401826)
05-22-2007 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
05-21-2007 7:27 AM


Prostitutes. male or female, are products of abuse by our societies.
Not always. Many people find legitimate, fulfilling employment in the sex industry by their own volition.
Not every prostitute has a sob story or is there because of poverty, and a solution to the "problem" of prostitution needs to recognize that for many, it's no problem at all - just legitimate services between client and worker.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 05-21-2007 7:27 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 05-22-2007 1:58 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 8:33 PM crashfrog has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 162 (401839)
05-22-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
05-21-2007 7:27 AM


A Practical step regarding Prostitution.
We need to understand and appreciate these people whose whole career is devoted to bringing joy and pleasure to so many, yet face the sure knowledge that tastes being as they are, one day the public will turn from them to favor some younger model.
Unlike other professions that are age dependent like athletes, the prostitutes do not receive wages in the millions or long term contracts with health care benefits extending even beyond employment. They simply do not receive the financial stability afforded baseball, football, hockey, basketball, tennis, golf, soccer players or of the actors, writers, stage hands in the other entertainment industries.
One thing YOU can do to help rectify this disparity is to look up your local chapter of the IDP&HHW (Institute for Destitute Prostitutes & Home for Hoary Whores). See what you can do to help these folk. Do your part, support the products and services available.
Remember the IDP&HHW was the initial developer of the Lay Awhile™ plan, the Pay Now Lay Latter™ program and other life changing programs. Ask about them at your local facility.
Buy the products endorsed by the IDP&HHW.
Look for the well known men's genital deodorant "Great Balls A Fire™" available in the bright red two quart lotion can that contains it's own fine camel hair bristle applicator brush or the bright red spray cans conveniently marked "Upper" and "Lower" and the slogan: "Do Dogs follow you home?™".
Don't neglect these people whose sole purpose in life has been bring pleasure to others. Get out there today and support the IDP&HHW by proudly displaying their products on your mantle.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 05-21-2007 7:27 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-25-2007 4:02 PM jar has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 301 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 5 of 162 (401853)
05-22-2007 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
05-22-2007 11:13 AM


Absolutely.
I think the numbers are like 40% or so.
Not where 12 year old's are sold by their parents.
What you are speaking to are more the call girl-boy types.
I refer here more to hookers.
How should we deal with the problem though?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 11:13 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 2:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 6 of 162 (401858)
05-22-2007 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Greatest I am
05-22-2007 1:58 PM


How should we deal with the problem though?
I think we should interdict human trafficking with the same gusto that we deal with (fake) terrorists, for starters. And I think we should have structures (legal, business) that bring prostitution out into the open. I think we should be reminded of the legitimate benefits people get from prostitution. For instance, prostitution allows people with severe disabilities to experience sexual pleasure; it's a way for people with really "out there" fetishes to fulfill those needs in a private, consenting way. And, of course, there's the people who make a very good living doing it. Not every example of prostitution is a woman held in sexual bondage by a pimp or a child exploited by pedophiles.
The problems you're talking about come from exploitation in the sex industry. Well, we've dealt with exploitation of workers by employers before. Is there some reason you think those strategies can't be applied here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 05-22-2007 1:58 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Rahvin, posted 05-22-2007 3:17 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 22 by Greatest I am, posted 05-23-2007 11:39 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


Message 7 of 162 (401866)
05-22-2007 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
05-22-2007 2:44 PM


Addendum to crash's statement:
A very large portion of the problem is that prostitutes are forced to acquire protection from exploiting pimps and such, becasue they cannot go to the police. In this way, they are much like illegal immigrants - trapped in a cycle of exploitation and lawbreaking becasue they cannot appeal to legitimate authorities for fear of being prosecuted themselves.
If prostitution were legalized, those who choose the profession would be able to call the cops without fear, would no longer need to seek the "protection" of a drugged-out violent pimp who's more likely to beat the crap out of the prostitute and rob the john than provide actual protection, they can legally report "workplace abuse" just like in any other job, and the government could tax the hell out of it.
Other societies have legalized prostitution (see Germany. Hell, see Nevada). The sky has not fallen.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 2:44 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 162 (401873)
05-22-2007 3:33 PM


Ok, I might as well ask it here.
Do people seek out prostitutes to fullfill certain sexual needs or are we talking about the dominance game again?
May be I'm just a moron, I've been for years trying to get my head around understanding why people need to seek out prostitutes at all.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Rahvin, posted 05-22-2007 4:07 PM Taz has replied
 Message 27 by kongstad, posted 05-23-2007 4:52 PM Taz has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


Message 9 of 162 (401880)
05-22-2007 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
05-22-2007 3:33 PM


Do people seek out prostitutes to fulfill certain sexual needs or are we talking about the dominance game again?
May be I'm just a moron, I've been for years trying to get my head around understanding why people need to seek out prostitutes at all.
Some people do actively seek prostitutes simply for sex. Others, I'm sure, have a Dominance "kink." Others want to perform sex acts which may be...unusual.
In any case, I see no problem with ANY of it, so long as everything is consensual and nobody is actually injured.
I can't "wrap my head around" a lot of things people do for sexual gratification. But then, I'm certain many others would think the same of me. Consensuality and a lack of real harm are the dividing lines for me in terms of "should we let people do this or not."

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 05-22-2007 3:33 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 05-22-2007 9:29 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 162 (401892)
05-22-2007 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
05-21-2007 7:27 AM


Remember Prohibition?
Is it better to avail one’s self of the services of a prostitute to help them survive, or is there a better way.
As with all things for which there are laws legislating morality, the best way to fix the 'problem' is to just get rid of the laws that shouldn't've been there in the first place.
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 05-21-2007 7:27 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


Message 11 of 162 (401903)
05-22-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
05-22-2007 5:41 PM


Re: Remember Prohibition?
As with all things for which there are laws legislating morality, the best way to fix the 'problem' is to just get rid of the laws that shouldn't've been there in the first place.
Agreed. Exactly as with prohibition, it is the laws that cause the problems, not prostitution itself.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 05-22-2007 5:41 PM Jon has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2197 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 162 (401939)
05-22-2007 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
05-22-2007 11:13 AM


quote:
Many people find legitimate, fulfilling employment in the sex industry by their own volition.
Yeah, because many prostitutes come from comfortable, supportive homes where they were protected from abuse, were well-educated, and were afforded many opportunities to take a plethora of career paths.
I'm not saying that it might not happen that way sometimes, but if you want me to accept the word "many" as the modifier, you're going to have to show me the data.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 11:13 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 05-22-2007 10:46 PM nator has replied
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 05-22-2007 10:55 PM nator has replied
 Message 38 by macaroniandcheese, posted 05-24-2007 12:07 AM nator has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 162 (401948)
05-22-2007 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Rahvin
05-22-2007 4:07 PM


Rahvin writes:
In any case, I see no problem with ANY of it, so long as everything is consensual and nobody is actually injured.
Oh no, don't get me wrong. This is one of those issues that I recognize my personal opinion should not be expressed at all because it is irrational.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Rahvin, posted 05-22-2007 4:07 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 162 (401953)
05-22-2007 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
05-22-2007 8:33 PM


You think it's special? You back up your reason!
Nator writes:
I'm not saying that it might not happen that way sometimes, but if you want me to accept the word "many" as the modifier, you're going to have to show me the data.
We've taken the position that there's no problem, that these gals aren't any different than the rest of us”just business folks doing a job they like. Some might not like their job; I don't like mine. I'm pretty convinced that they are just like everyone else.
You, on the other hand, think they are much different”that they had a different childhood, have a different life from the average Joe Jill. You think they're somehow special, a case different than the norm. If you what us to believe that they are indeed a special case, then you need to back it up. You're the one who needs to show us the facts. Without that, there's really no reason for us to assume that there is any difference between most of them and most of us. Unless, of course, there's some other reason for us to think they're special...
As a side note: crashfrog said "the sex industry," which includes everything from whoring on the street to standing behind the counter at an adult video store. Do you really think they all most of them hate their jobs?
Jon
Edited by Jon, : Added quote box.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 8:33 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nator, posted 05-23-2007 6:38 AM Jon has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 15 of 162 (401954)
05-22-2007 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
05-22-2007 8:33 PM


Yeah, because many prostitutes come from comfortable, supportive homes where they were protected from abuse, were well-educated, and were afforded many opportunities to take a plethora of career paths.
I'm not saying that it might not happen that way sometimes, but if you want me to accept the word "many" as the modifier, you're going to have to show me the data.
I doubt you could find any field of employment where most people came from homes where they were protected from abuse, were well-educated, and were afforded many opportunities to choose from a wide variety of career path.
I don't mean to suggest that the majority of people involved in prostitution are anything but exploited in nearly every conceivable way. But cracking down on prostitution has never had much of a positive effect; on the other hand, drawing the business (and it is a business) out into the light, and into the reach of unionization and regulation, has had great positive effects for both prostitutes and their clients just about everywhere it's been tried.
People need to have sex. It's good for you. Having sex within the confines of a personal relationship isn't always an option for everybody. On its face, I don't see what's inherently wrong with prostitution. In practice, it's an exploitative nightmare for the vast majority of people involved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 8:33 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by nator, posted 05-23-2007 6:52 AM crashfrog has replied

  
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