WORK

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Here's another question, what is your motivation for helping someone, because you know it will come back to you or you know it's the right thing to do?

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I spent three years in the Peace Corps teaching secondary school in an underdeveloped part of Tanzania. I did for no other reason than I wanted to contribute to the well-being of my fellow humans, using the only skills that I had. I choose the Peace Corps because I felt that was where the greatest need was. I am also an atheist.Does that answer your question?

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Anyway, what I mean by dropping to your knees is not sky diving or near death experiences, but humility. Realizing that you're not in control.

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If God is in control of your life, how could He have given us a "free will"?

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Of course everyone is benevolent to a degree, but to suggest that athieth are more so than Christians is serious lie.

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Is this because you say so, or do you have substantive evidence to support such an outrageous claim?

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Christians in general and the church universal donate billions of dollars and time to feeding the hungry and helping the poor.

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Giving food away to the needy as a means of proselytizing others is benevolent? Why not simply give food away simply for the sake of being nice, rather than have ulterior motives?

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Here's another question, what is your motivation for helping someone, because you know it will come back to you or you know it's the right thing to do?

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Right thing to do — gives others a better chance at a better way of life, thus helping society overall. So here’s a question for you — why don’t Christian charities and missionaries simply do the same? Why must they feel compelled to attempt a conversion? Isn’t giving food to the needy for the sake of not wanting them to die of disease and starvation good enough for you and them?

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I guess I should have known that the average poster here is a single white guy, college age to 40 years old, out of shape, not in a commited relationship and spends too much time playing video games or being on the internet or watching tv. Total up your hours doing selfish activities and you'll realize the difference.

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What reasoning allowed you to come to a fallacious guess? Is this what your Christianity teaches you, to be so presumptuous and judgmental upon others? If I were you, I would be sure to ask God for forgiveness.BTW, I’m 30, married 4 years, rarely play video games, I’m an avid triathlete (former collegiate swimmer and water polo player). My most recent bike is more expensive than my first car, and I work out/train approx. 15 hrs./week. I also have 2 degrees, and recently began working on my third (Doctor’s in Physical Therapy). I do spend a lot of time on the computer, but that’s because my current job requires me to do so (Ass. LAN Supervisor). I do watch TV every night, but it’s usually around 1-2 hrs. or so.
I’m sorry I do not fit your profile, which is why I think it’s safe to conclude that you should be asking God for forgiveness.

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Believe me, I'm not being condecending, I was an athiest, I am no better than anyone else, I can be quite selfish, but Jesus has helped me to be less so, thank the Lord. Hallelujah!

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I really can’t believe you, simply because your previous statement was 100% condescending and presumptuous. I’m sorry you didn’t find the strength to be less selfish within yourself, but that certainly doesn’t reflect upon everyone else that chooses not to believe the way you do. It is extremely short-sighted to project your former behaviors upon others. The Lord may have helped you with your selfishness, but it’s apparent He has some more work to do own your presumptuous, judgmental behavior.

Yeah, God is definitely still working on my tact, I will admit that.Please, never think I want you to be like me, I have way too many flaws. (I hope this doesn't come off as corny, I'm speaking truth)Anyway, do you guys actually believe that you'll realize life's greatest truths and treasures on the internet?Do you realy think that spending your time discussing life's big issues with people you don't even know will enlighten you?Come on fellas get out there and tackle these issues by the legs. Let me tell you something, this is an exercise for me, but only because I'm curious to be reminded of how I used to think. Kind of like going back in time.Keep seeking and you will find the answers. peace

BTW, I’m 30, married 4 years, rarely play video games, I’m an avid triathlete (former collegiate swimmer and water polo player). My most recent bike is more expensive than my first car, and I work out/train approx. 15 hrs./week. I also have 2 degrees, and recently began working on my third (Doctor’s in Physical Therapy). I do spend a lot of time on the computer, but that’s because my current job requires me to do so (Ass. LAN Supervisor). I do watch TV every night, but it’s usually around 1-2 hrs. or so. I’m sorry I do not fit your profileOkay, okay, so you're above average.Hey, ever stop and NOT do anything. The silence can be freightening for some, enlightening for others. Chew on the fact that you've just states several times that I should ask God for forgiveness when you are apparently an athiest. I am correct in that assumption right, you are an athiest?

Steve, you're coming off like a damn fool, or at least a fifteen year old (no offense to fifteen year olds).Some people do learn things on this forum, but with your superior attitude I don't see how you could open your mind to "enlightenment".As far as your condescending tone: you are giving life advice to people "you don't even know". You claim to be humble, but apparently don't realize that there are folks here with far more wisdom than yourself (and I'm not talking about myself).As far as "getting out there and tackling these issues," I am a scientist who asks questions about evolution every day - does that suffice? Or did you have something else in mind?And again, you haven't clued us in to your life information, even though you've been asked several times by multiple people. You are either rude or completely lacking in courage. (Or fifteen?)I'm beginning to suspect that you thought you would easily out-debate people on this forum, and from other threads I've seen quite the opposite has happened. Perhaps this condescending topic is your way of compensating... and making yourself feel a bit better than the rest of us... not that selfishness or pride would have any part in that...

I am currently painting people's houses. Right before this, I'd been working in a biology lab researching on genetically engineered plants for a very long time. It required getting up rediculously early in the morning every damn day to go into the lab and staying rediculously late trying to finish up work, especially when they got cheap and got rid of my cleaning lady so I had to start autoclaving and cleaning my own dishes.Real responsibility? Let just say that the food that you'll be eating in the near future may very well be the direct results of what I participated at the time. Not at work. However, I'm currently recovering from a car accident (Ha! the laws of physics failed its attempt on my life yet again). Still hurt in a few places. Last summer, I needed to to find a place around my school to stay so I could continue my work at the lab. Just happened that my prof David Bevington was going to to England to teach at some university there (can't remember which one). He needed someone to house sit for him and he asked me. What does that mean? I got to live in his house for free for the summer That was the background of the story. The problem arosed when some of my friends needed a place to stay too, and prices around there was getting rediculously high. Unfortunately, my prof didn't feel comfortable having other people stay in his house beside myself. I literally used my life to assure him that I'd take care of everything and that I wouldn't allow anything to happen to his house and his belongings. Believe you me, as far as being strictly beneficial to myself, the trouble I went through to get 5 other people to stay for free in that house far outweighed the benefits that I got in return.Also, I am leaving out the details about how I dealt with various problems that arose during the summer, including freaking drunks and orgies. Let just say that while everyone had fun I was the one that stayed up the latest and woke up the earliest to keep things under control. I don't regret it though.To quote Spock, "the need of the many outweigh the need of the few, or the one."What's the moral of the story? I could have kept my mouth shut and had a summer blast partying and drinking. But I decided to help 5 people and didn't have a drop to drink the whole summer. Not all of us are as heartless as you think.By the way, despite my best effort, we managed to poke a few holes here and there, one of my friends broke a pipe, and a burglar broke into the house and ran off when he saw myself and my friend holding a baseball bat. Phew, am I glad we finished the summer off without doing anything not fixable.

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The Laminator

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No. Much like you, I have a job that sits me in front of a computer with nothing else to do, and so I amuse myself.When I find that I'm thinking about the board way too much (especially when I'm not at the computer) I stop for a few days.In the meantime I'm happily married, I fight with foam-padded swords, play a few video games or watch some TV, and read a lot. A whole lot.If you think that anything brings me here but fun, you're crazy. I'm not on a mission or a path of enlightenment. I'm here to scrapp with folks because pretty much everyone I know thinks a lot like me, and that's pretty damn boring.

Not really. I play ultimate frisbee, soccer, and music for fun. Up until the beginning of the summer, I'd been president of my school's student philosophy association. We hold weekly debates on just about every subject that you could think of. When I am free, I read a lot of science fiction books. When I'm not sleeping and it's at night, I talk with Will, in person, until like 5 in the morning (last year I lost a lot of sleep because of the guy). If Will isn't around, Esther will take his place. Programs I turn the tv on for include and limited to the news, the simpsons, star trek enterprise, and stargate sg-1. I run/jog for about an hour everyday. When I have free time, I run/jog some more.What's my point? There's a lot of other things going on in my life you know. Not really. The reason I came here in the first place was because I got frustrated at some very ignorant people on arachnoboards.com. I'm a tarantula hobbyist (meaning I collect tarantulas). Arachnoboards is a place for people to post questions and talk about tarantulas and scorpions. There is a place there where you can talk about anything, and occassionally there would be people that have a H.S. degree but think they know more than scientists and professors there. In fact, it had gotten so bad (with people that claimed that the biologist PhD's and students had been brainwashed and that their H.S. diploma was good enough to "refute" our evidences on certain biological concepts) that I needed a place to vent off some of my frustration. Thus, I came here and started this thread.

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The Laminator

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Nope. Nope. Damn you why didnt you give me another nope question, if you do it three times its funny. The reason i come and play on these forums is that it gets my mind working, and i have great pleasure in thinking. Tackle these issues by the legs? What issues, i have no issues that i can think of, so what good would walking do? Once again you begin to get condescending for no apparent reason. You feel you are going back in time, maybe, but if you are referring to going back to being an athiest (i think u said you used to be), then from the quality of arguements you have been using in the other forums i would suggest you do not think like us, because you dont know, and arent willing to listen, to some of the answers. Silence is bliss, though if you look carefully you will find that humans fear it in general, and desperatly search for some sort of distraction so they dont have to listen to their own thoughts. Im planning on locking myself in our cellar next year for a week or so, try and have as little stimulation as possible. If you want and are still about i can tell you what the silence is really like. I try and get this sorta degree of silence at times, and love the night for it.Steve, you have yet to answer your own question to us, im sure there are plenty here who would like to here the answer. From the sounds of it you have merely come here to try and make yourself a preacher, unfortunatly you merely seem to just preach to each person whatever you think they might not have tried yet. I suspect that many of the people out there live very fulfilling and varied lives, and that your recommendations of get out there, and stay where you are for the quiet etc etc are somewhat annoying, i know they are for me.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

When did I ever claim to be humble?

I'm here to scrapp with folks because pretty much everyone I know thinks a lot like me, and that's pretty damn boring.EXACTLY!

Steve, this will actually be a reply to a number of your posts on this topic.First off, in answer to you first post, I am an agnostic who has had jobs with substantial responsibilities including research into human health and nutrition, development of drugs for children and production of drugs for children. I have also assisted or been a principle (from the research and testing side) in more than one human clinical trial. I would consider this a substantial responsibility and one which has brought me to my metaphorical knees more than once, although not to pray to your non-existent deity (more on that later).As to a latter post, I am college educated (obviously) and in my 40's. While I am in better shape than most of the males in my age group I do not consider myself in good shape that is due to my somewhat insane standards. One reason is the number of hours spent at my job, the other is my family. So much for the self indulgence that you appear to believe controls the people on this board who do not agree with your religious pap.As to consideration of things stretching beyond my own life, there are a number including the production of life saving drugs, attempts to generate knowledge for future generations, and generally trying to help those around me. I have also tried to help with various local charities although I try to stay away from the religious based charities due to their arrogance and narrow viewpoints as well as their general insistence on saving the people that they help.Now, as I have answered your questions and assertions I think that allows me the right to ask you to answer your own questions and reply to you own assertions. I have to say that so far I am finding you to be an ignorant and somewhat cowardly poster. You were asked earlier to reply to your own questions which would generally be considered a simple matter of courtesy and so far I am not seeing much in the way of a reply. Only that you have never claimed to be humble; unfortunately I do not consider a statement of the obvious to be a reply. Do you have the courage to reply to your own questions or not.Obviously I find your totally arrogant and unfounded hints and assertions about the goals and habits of people who do not share your rather parochial religion to be more than slightly irritating. I have found it to be a common trait among the religious, namely that if you are not religious (and generally my religion as well) than you can not be a good, moral or otherwise honorable person. It is an attitude without merit or support as well as one that flies in the face of many of the assertions of your own rather self conflicting religion.

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Hey, ever stop and NOT do anything. The silence can be freightening for some, enlightening for others.

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Who ever said I didn't stop and NOT do anything? These are some of the most welcoming times of my life, esp. when I sit on the couch with my wife, or sip on a glass of wine out on my back porch watching the sunset.As that old Depeche Mode song goes, I most certainly Enjoy the Silence.

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Chew on the fact that you've just states several times that I should ask God for forgiveness when you are apparently an athiest.

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Why is that a fact for me to chew on? Is it not a Christian value to allow God to be the judgement of man, and that it is wrong for man to be presumptuous, which you most certainly were earlier? Why would it matter if I am an atheist or not? I do know a healthy number of aspects of Christianity - don't you?

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I am correct in that assumption right, you are an athiest?

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Since when did I say that? Why would you, once again, presume me to be something that I may not actually be? What's more, how do my beliefs pertain to the concept of doing good deeds without the necessity of reward?And I noticed that you erased my other questions and answers to your questions. Your response to those, please.

Please don't do that. We want our super squirrel to stay sane.

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The Laminator

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I'm 58 and have been married to the same woman 35 years. I could be in better shape, but stack 100 bales of hay at a time on a mini-farm and tell me how you feel. The intoxicating smell of a pasture after a summer rain doesn't come through very well on the internet, so I don't spend much time there.Do you love you enemies, Steve? How about meeting the North Vietnamese artillary officer who did his damndest to kill you in Vietnam and hold his family and yours near and dear. What the Hell. I was trying to kill him too. We both missed. Can you learn something from a Communist about dedication, faith, and (dare I say it) family values? Absolutely. But would you bother to listen?Stand on the deck of an aircraft carrier on a pitch black night in the middle of the Pacific with every star in the universe over your head and realize that you are part of the whole. Star Stuff, to quote Carl Sagan.Want to put a label on my beliefs? Go ahead. I don't give a damn one way or another, but here's one of my favorite quotes..."There's nothing more obnoxious than a convert".
- Rev. Jack Huntley, Episcopal priest(:raig