Pop Quiz in American History 101

It is a prevailing myth that Abe Lincoln was some sort of pioneer on race relations. He wasn't. The whole Civil War era, from an historical context, is fraught with error and inaccuracies. The Civil War was not fought over slavery, as the North was just as racist as the South. Like most things in politics, the race issue was used as a wedge to garner support for the North and denigrate the South.It was a different time. There were many Americans who felt that the enslavery of the negroe was barbaric, which it is. But then it was not all what we saw and read about on Roots either. History, real history, not revisionist history, is usually found somewhere precariously between extremes.

---

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

Sweet I guessed right.I would say probably when he was a lawyer, and before he took his most famous office.

Nem, It could be argued that all history, even natural history, is revisionist history.What I like about Abe's statement is his matter-of-fact attitude about the inferiority of blacks. He was more of a racist bigot than Thomas Jefferson was. Furthermore, the Lincoln-Douglas debate, from which the OP quote was lifted, was always taught in my schools as some kind of victory by freedom-and-dignity advocates over those who advocated slavery.”HM

I wonder why they didn't post the OP quote on the Lincoln Memorial. Revisionist history?”HM

Indeed it could. What about that do you like? The brutal honesty or the racial bigotry? Right, which is not exactly true. There are elements of truth, in that, while it is true that he sought to emancipate slaves, his intentions were not as well meaning as you will find in the history books.

---

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

How about a theist Eskimo, the husband of Ms Palin, , McCain's VP pick? Yah. He's an Eskimo. I believe he holds a championship dog race title. He works on an oil pipeline as I understand it. Hoot Mon, great thread idea. I appreciate your input here at EvC.....always have. I stumped for you more than once as admin, though we agree on little.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Just a guess. Lincoln - Douglas debate?

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Slavery emancipator Lincoln's statement reminds me a bit of my own position on race, as per the Daniel prophecy in (I believe) Daniel 8 for our times and which earns me, as well, the status of racist bigot here in EvC town.1. At the time of the emancipation, black slaves were not savvy enough politically to govern, vote or assimilate fully into the mainstream educated populace. This was likely the best for America. It was the beginning of what was to become something better for the minority race.2. Lincoln was right. Compatibility among the races is not necessarily assumable. We are different inherantly, somewhat ideologically, emotionally, physiologically and culturally. Realistically, that stiffles compatibility.3. Whether evo, creo or whatever one's ideology be, the reality is that either an ID creator created the races for some purpose or NS and RM naturalism evolved the races thataway. To jam fool heads into the sand and incriminate one's who have enough brains to understand this as racist bigots is itself meanspirited bigotism.4. That blacks still congregate together and whites congregate together after all of the integration hoop - law by government and social advocates we've endured all these decades, attests to the fact that ideally, the races are more content to mingle among likes.Again, having said the above, unlike Lincoln, if my son were to marry a black, contrary to my advice, she'd be loved and treated equally as well as a white would be, if not better, just to reasure her that she was now one of the family. I say unlike Lincoln, bearing in mind that were Lincoln alive today and descendents of slaves were integrated as they are today, imo, his position would be different relative to rights.Perhap this is regarded by some as off topic, but being Lincoln is not here to defend himself, and being he's maligned as a bigot in this thread, imo, he needs an advocate on his behalf. Edited by Buzsaw, : clarify wording

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I really really hate to burst your bubble, but I gotta break it to you that nobody in academia thinks Abe Lincoln was some kind of saint when it came to race relations. It's only you people that think it's some kind of secret that Abe was a racist. It's like little Mary proclaiming in a crowd that "we need more coolant" thinking she's really impressing the nuclear engineers. Frankly, (and speaking as a history nut), I think regular history education doesn't do history enough justice. No, I'm not talking about the contents. I'm talking about how it's presented. Virtually all my history instructors in the past lectured with a monotone. I think all these people should be hacked to death for giving the impression that history is boring, which it's not!As a matter of fact, for the party nomination Lincoln was up against a more idealistic opponent. His name escapes me for now. The guy not only wanted to abolish slavery but also to create a society that was more or less like the 21st century where the normal attitude was to support complete equality among the races. Of course, this guy never had a chance just like a pro gay-rights candidate would never have a chance these days because there were simply too many bigots back then and there are still too many bigots nowadays (ahem).In short, the next time I see someone use the "but the founding fathers were christians" bullshit argument, I will wrap my hands around his throat, squeeze it, and yell into his face that the founding of this country was also based on the three fifths compromise. At this point, if he doesn't know what this is, I will proceed to pop out his tiny brain.Added by edit.By the way, it's "enslavement" and also try not to use the word "negro". "Black folks," I think, is adequate.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I beg to differ regarding the "mainstream educated populace" statement. You honest to god believe that the mainstream populace back then was educated? Whether he was right or wrong is up for debate. While I agree that during that era a lot of people weren't ready for the intermingle of the different races, we also have to put into consideration that people in that era were 6 hairs away from being a baboon (context taken from Lewis Black). I believe in the potential rather than dwell age long prejudices. Huh? How would you describe it then if not racist bigotry? Here is what I think. People have the tendency to form groups based on what they consider as important. Before I go on, let me give you an example to demonstrate the point that I'm about to give.Everyday, I drive by a predominantly black church to and from work. Everytime I drive by that church, I'm always reminded by the sign they put up a few years back that read "AIDS is God's punishment for gay people".If you haven't guessed it, the theme behind that sign was pure unadulterated ignorance coupled with bigotry... just like your congregation I might add. The brutal fact is most people still aren't educated to the level where they can intellectually see past the skin color and the facial features. And hence, we have white congregations and black congregations.As for me, I try to see it this way. We are all in this together. Careful there, we might begin to start defending other more obvious symbols of bigotry in history.PS - Is Obama still a Muslim secret agent?

What a parochial view of life you have. There are many places outside the U.S. where the two races you're talking about intermingle far more than they do chez vous. There'll come a point in the not too distant future when there are more "mixed race" people than black in London, even though the modern black London only began arriving in the city exactly 60 years ago, meaning considerable cultural differences and a newcomer syndrome to add to any racism.Different groups of humans can maintain long term separation while living in the same place if they maintain cultural barriers, religion being traditionally the most effective one. But tribes mix quickly if there are no strong cultural barriers, which is why the intermarriage rate between black and white Britons is way higher than the intermarriage rate between white and brown Muslim Britons (religious self-segregation in action, like the Jews historically in Europe).Race itself does not seem to be a natural barrier at all (if there weren't some cultural and identity differences between black and white Britons, the intermarriage rate would be through the roof).Edited by bluegenes, : wrong word changed

Among the planet's highest; educated enough to move along the advancement of the US to the most industrialized nation on the planet. If your kind of knuclehead, Lewis Black, had a tenth of the wisdom, understanding and decency as the average person of that era, he would know better than to make such a stupid and false statement. I'd describe it as an observational scientific reality. Lincoln had enough sense to realize it. What's your problem? Mmmm, they must've read something in the OT of their Bible about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

The raw irony and the revelation that what I thought I knew was probably wrong. I've always wondered where the truth ends and the lies begin between the pages of history. JFK is another historical enigma. For all I know he was the one who gave Marilyn Monroe her fatal enema.”HM.

I believe it's snowmobiling. But, yes, he be dah man! He gets to sleep with Sarah and make babies with her. I'll give him many masculine kudos for that! I like his version of Eskimo pie! (But as VP? Hold on a minute.) Thanks, Buz. But I'm not worthy because I cause my own problems. And we may agree on more than you think.”HM

How about both? Suppose a Creator was in charge of creating all the animals, all the plants, etc., and that He predisposed upon his creation a method for arriving at the different races, animals, plants, etc. I've never understood why the creos so adamantly object to learning about the Creator's ways”about how He did it, about His evolutionary grace. Or we need to understand that true and accurate historical accountings are as rare as transitional fossils.”HM