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Author Topic:   Bigfoot
anglagard
Member (Idle past 863 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 52 of 262 (401350)
05-19-2007 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
05-17-2007 5:51 PM


Just Say No to Bigfoot etc.
Other posters have pointed out the reasons why they don't think there is any 'bigfoot' due to lack of evidence.
To summarize the objections are:
1. No live specimens.
2. No dead specimens, not even one tooth.
3. No hair, no scat, no other remains that one could get DNA from.
4. No plausible mechanism by which a viable breeding population (around at least 50 individuals) could exist without any trace of the above.
5. No believers among trained researchers who are spending most their waking hours in the ecosystem.
However, there is historic evidence that people can be mistaken about the existence of large animals in the past. Think dragons, unicorns, ogres, titans, trolls, giants (over 9 feet). Or we could go for small like poltergeists, faeries, leprechauns, elves, gremlins, and so on.
The history of belief without a shred of evidence is huge. Look at Loch Ness, UFOs as metal spaceships, crystal healing, astrology, numerology, Feng Sui, divination, tarot, palm reading, and so on.
And so on, and so on.
Considering the history of extraordinary claims, extreme skepticism is the most rational response. Number me among the skeptics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 05-17-2007 5:51 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Nuggin, posted 05-19-2007 5:11 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 203 by Taz, posted 05-26-2007 10:17 PM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 863 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 204 of 262 (402453)
05-27-2007 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Taz
05-26-2007 10:17 PM


Re: Just Say No to Bigfoot etc.
anglagard writes:
1. No live specimens.
We have no live giant squid specimen, and I don't think anyone actually doubt its exitence anymore.
True, but there is much more evidence concerning dead squid, either within or without the belly of a sperm whale.
2. No dead specimens, not even one tooth.
I challenge you to go into the wild and find a bear's corpse. The point is being a nature freak, I have spent weeks at a time wandering in the wilderness of American west and never once have I actually seen a live or dead bear... and I don't doubt its existence.
evidently you have not spent enough time in the wilderness of the American West to see all kinds of things, including cadavers and bones. I have personally seen black bears dozens of times, along with every bigger than squirrel mammal I know of that hangs out round these parts, except a bobcat.
I can provide a list, if you believe there may be something I may have missed.
4. No plausible mechanism by which a viable breeding population (around at least 50 individuals) could exist without any trace of the above.
Have you ever been to the wilderness of Alaska or Colorado? It's huge. It's literally thousands and thousands of acres of places to hide.
Only the wilderness of Colorado, and California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico as a mineral hunter. I'd love to go to Alaska, give me a ticket.
Sorry, never saw bigfoot, but seen lots of tracks and scat of animals that actually exist, in addition to actually making my acquaintance on a more direct level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Taz, posted 05-26-2007 10:17 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-28-2008 8:50 PM anglagard has replied
 Message 220 by Coyote, posted 07-29-2008 12:03 AM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 863 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 224 of 262 (477052)
07-29-2008 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Coyote
07-29-2008 12:03 AM


Re: Just Say No to Bigfoot etc.
Coyote writes:
Have you actually seen bear bones in the wilderness?
I have seen the various limb and once a hip bone which by process of elimination I took to be from black bears. Have not seen a skull, complete skeleton, or cadaver of a bear as I have with several herbivore species such as pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep, and of course deer.
The point I was trying to make was that TAZ must have been looking in the wrong place or just had some bad luck in spotting black bears in the West. I have seen many in CA, NM, and one in AZ usually far off but did surprise one taking a dump from about 30 feet away while taking geology field camp. Now that was fresh scat and prints. Interestingly we also damn near ran over a large mountain lion on the way back from the bar one night during the same course in a department van.
In the late 60s you could hardly miss seeing black bears from the comfort of your car in Yosemite Valley, surprised they didn't try to wash the windshield for spare change.
I have never seen a carnivore skeleton, and only rarely have I seen isolated carnivore bones, and this is after decades of regular wilderness trekking.
Is this your experience as well?
Yes, only saw that one mountain lion alive and just black bear individual bones, not a complete skeleton. However, if one downsizes to your namesake, they are often roadkill around here. Almost nailed a few myself.
I studied physical anthropology under one of the bigfoot experts in grad school, and he was of the opinion that carnivore skeletons are extremely hard to find. He presumed that Bigfoot would be similarly difficult to find as well.
Perhaps, but in my experience tracks and turds are not. Don't these purported critters ever take a crap or do they bury it like a housecat?

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Coyote, posted 07-29-2008 12:03 AM Coyote has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 863 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 225 of 262 (477053)
07-29-2008 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by LudoRephaim
07-28-2008 8:50 PM


Re: Just Say No to Bigfoot etc.
LudoRepaim writes:
I have often went on hunting trips into the deep east Texas wilderness (my Dad loves to hunt and took me when i was younger)as well as camped and hiked a lot. I remember once coming across a number of large bones on a dirt trail, which I took for a cow (Being no anatomist or biologist, i could have misidentified the bones...), but i cannot recall ever seeing another dead animal in the woods that was not recently shot.
One usually smells them before seeing them. Just follow the vultures, they know where to look. Also creeks and bodies of water seem to be a favorite for half-rotten cadavers.
I have ever seen a sasquatch in the Texas woods, but i have never seen Cougars there either, even though i came across a track that seemed to have been made by one (very huge might it add, though to this day i dont know whether it was made by a cougar or a massive dog). I have seen numerous snakes; the woods can be saturated with them. But i've never seen a dead one unless freshly killed by a person or a dog.
My coworker has evidently seen a cougar that includes his property 10 miles south of town here in his rounds. Also have encountered a few dead rattlesnakes, but it's not the dead ones that worry me that much.
If Bigfoot exists, we know next to didly squat about their biology and living habits when compared to blackbears and other animals known to science. That could possibly hinder a person from finding a dead one in the woods (if you know a whole lot about Blackbears, you will most likely know where to find dead ones along with living ones).
It seems these purported creatures favor areas with lots of undergrowth and cover such as the Pacific Northwest to foil those park rangers and spy satellites.
True, many people who have went through the deep wilderness of the west have not found sasquatch or things like Sasquatch scat and hair or corpses. That's probably the same experience that African explorers had when going through Gorilla country; no dead bodies of Gorillas, hair or scat, but some other dead well known animals nearby. Similar things were probably said of Giant Pandas, Giant Squid, Orangutans, Colossal Squids, Komodo Dragons, Koupreys, Saolas, Kermode Spirit Bears (black bears with white hair, such a contrast), Onza (somewhat wolf-like population of Mexican Cougars), King Cheetahs (stocky, darker spotted, snarly Cheetah that is born nowand again among populations of normal cheetahs), Giant Forest Hog (Africa), Okapi, etc.
Perhaps those great white hunters and explorers should have asked the natives. Then they would have either found the creatures fairly quickly or not at all (as in the case of some alleged creatures and various other things of interest like 'cities of gold')
BTW: are you a field biologist? I could have sworn you mentioned being in the wilderness of several states in a post shortly after the one i am responding to you now. A person who is capable of finding numerous black bear bodies in the woods must be well trained and skilled to find them.
No, one of my degrees is in geological engineering but I did give up hunting animals for hunting rare minerals as a hobby. Also, as I was explaining to Coyote, I have not found any complete skeletons or cadavers or black bears as I have with some herbivores. My experiences with wild black bears have been mainly limited to the living.
I hope this clears up any confusion as to my experiences, sorry if I somehow accidentally mislead you or Coyote.
Edited by anglagard, : clarity

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-28-2008 8:50 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Coyote, posted 07-29-2008 8:52 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 227 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-29-2008 9:12 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 228 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-29-2008 9:36 PM anglagard has not replied

  
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