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Author Topic:   Help Lizard Breath Save Bush from Hurricane Katrina
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 205 (240792)
09-06-2005 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Silent H
09-06-2005 8:24 AM


Bush isn't totally to blame, but he is the main man.
I agree with your overall point, holmes; you can't pin this all on Bush. But I've always agreed with the Truman philosophy that the buck stops at the president's desk. When federal agencies fuck things up, the ultimate responsibility lies with the president. How he handles that responsibility is how we take the measure of the man.
In this case, will heads roll or will medals be awarded? I think I know the answer, but we'll see.

"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Silent H, posted 09-06-2005 8:24 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Silent H, posted 09-06-2005 10:07 AM berberry has not replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 205 (240882)
09-06-2005 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Lizard Breath
09-06-2005 5:49 PM


Re: Bush isn't totally to blame, but he is the main man.
But I don't buy it, LB. From reports I've heard and read, he's talking about running the investigation himself. How is that supposed to work? Has any politician ever investigated him or her self and been found to have come up lacking?
This points up another problem with one-party rule as we have in Washington now. I have more faith in a congressional investigation, but even then it'll be republicans investigating republicans. I can't see how anyone's faith is going to be restored when the same party that fucked up is the one investigating the fuck up.
I have a feeling this is going to be like a typical local sherrif's investigation into a lynching in the Old South. But we'll see.

"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Lizard Breath, posted 09-06-2005 5:49 PM Lizard Breath has not replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 151 of 205 (242777)
09-12-2005 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Monk
09-12-2005 10:30 PM


Re: LB, Monk, Tal, and other Bush defenders
Monk writes:
quote:
I don’t blame Bush for not spending billions in south Louisiana to upgrade the levees or restore the wetlands.
I don't blame him for not spending the billions since no other president has, but I do blame republicans in general for stopping federal funds for levee maintenance in New Orleans. It costs a few million a year (that's million, not billion) and has been authorized by every president and congress since Johnson. I'm not talking about the multi-billion dollar proposal to upgrade the levees. I'm talking about merely maintaining what had already been built, kinda like we do with interestate bridges. And remember, it wasn't the blow that flooded New Orleans. It was the breach in the levees that occurred after the brunt of the storm had passed. Had the levee been properly maintained it's quite likely that it would have held.
quote:
...FEMA and Mike Brown should have seen the confusion between state and local officials and stepped in. Bush declared a state of emergency before Katrina hit, so at that point FEMA should have been ready to take command.
Confusion had nothing to do with it. Once a federal emergency declaration had been requested and granted, FEMA was in charge. Not "ready to take command" but "in command". That's the way disaster management is supposed to work.
The logic behind this is simple. Disasters have a way of interrupting and sometimes destroying the usual lines of communication. Local and state leaders may not be able to control relief operations simply because of the disaster itself, so once a federal emergency is declared by the president FEMA is supposed to provide active oversight of all relief and rescue operations.
Overall I agree with your much of what you say in this post, but I wanted to offer these caveats because I think they're important.

"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Monk, posted 09-12-2005 10:30 PM Monk has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Monk, posted 09-13-2005 10:14 AM berberry has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 205 (242916)
09-13-2005 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Monk
09-13-2005 10:14 AM


Re: LB, Monk, Tal, and other Bush defenders
Again, Monk, I'm not trying to seriously dispute anything you've said, just adding what I believe is important context.
quote:
The estimated $70 million shortfall certainly had an impact on several projects. But, that amount would not be nearly enough to provide the final funding necessary to solve New Orleans flood issues.
No, but that's not what I said. The $70 million is a hell of a sum for a relatively poor city of 1 million people. Given the profligate spending that is routine for this administration and congress that $70 million seems mightly paltry. The republicans somehow manage to find many, many more millions to build bridges to nowhere in Alaska but they can't spare $70 million to maintain a levee system in a crucial port city of over a million people.
Maintenance of that levee is a compelling national interest, and it's just the sort of thing that Homeland Security is supposed to be monitoring. It wouldn't matter one bit if it had been the state of Louisiana rather than the congress that stopped the maintenance funding. It would still be the business of Homeland Security to see to it that the infrastructure of an important port city like New Orleans is being maintained.
I'm not saying that Homeland Security should take charge of infrastructure maintenance in local areas, only that they MUST monitor it.
quote:
On Monday August 29, the President declared a “major disaster”. This IS the declaration that gave FEMA the authority to take over from local and state authorities.
Unless this is just an FYI I don't see your point. We agree. Your consistency is impressive. I have a higher opinion of you than I do of most conservatives.

"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Monk, posted 09-13-2005 10:14 AM Monk has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Monk, posted 09-13-2005 11:21 AM berberry has not replied

  
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