Abortion

Here's one for the coffee house.Let's talk about who's got what stance and what's their reasoning.Let's not talk about who's a Nazi and who's a Baby Killer.I really want to understand people's positions beyond "I can't get elected unless I say this."Let's mix it up and hash it out.

This one is headed for the Coffee House, but first, I think a little more content from the topic originator would be nice.Adminnemooseus

Will do.It seems like the abortion debate is at a stand still because the two groups are arguing from different grounds.One side is taking a moral stand against abortion, the other is taking a practical stand for abortion. Both sides disagree at almost every level of the debate, be it when life begins or who should decide when and where this proceedure can take place.From my understanding, the Right to Life community believes that life begins at conception. As such, the fetus (even at day one) has the same rights given to any citizen, therefore it's life can not be terminated simply by the will of another person.The Woman's Choice argument seems to be that a fetus is different from a living child, that the rights we associate with a child after birth are not necessarily the same as those of a being still in development, and that either way, the Government has no place passing laws forbidding individuals from doing things to/with their own bodies.Are their other points of view that I've left out? Do people agree/disagree with these topics.Where should the Government's influence end? The front door? The bedroom? Inside the body?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Here are my positions:

1. I take the traditional conservative position, that the best government is the least government. This is not an issue for the government to be involved.
2. I am pro-life. I am opposed to abortion in most circumstances.
3. I am pro-choice. It is not up to me to force my moral view on others. It is up to the potential mother to make her own moral choices.

Sounds like you are morally opposed but not legally.Personally, I look at abortion as the worst possible solution to a easily avoidable problem.Ideally we'd have no abortion and no need for abortion.However, practically, there's something like 1 million abortions in the US every year. (roughly 1 in 4) How could we possibly handle that many more people? Our school system is already over crowded, as are our jails, etc.

I would put it a little differently. I say that it is my moral obligation to avoid putting a woman in a position where she would want an abortion. It's not up to me to decide what is the woman's moral obligation. I agree. That's an argument for birth control. It should not be an argument for abortion.

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Personally, I look at abortion as the worst possible solution to a easily avoidable problem.

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I have never understood this position, so maybe you could elaborate on it. Why is abortion so bad?

I see abortion as a remedy for improving the quality of life of a person.Like other medical and surgical procedures it should not be undertaken lightly, but if you need it, its a good thing its there.Whether you need it or not is of course your own choice, with the advice of people you find relevant, spouse, parents, doctor etc, whatever works for you.So abortion is a very good thing./Soren

It's not that abortion is "bad" morally, it's just a bad solution to the problem.Other solutions would include:
Abstaining from unprotected sex
Using birth control
Taking morning after pill
Giving the child up for adoptionThe first three are clearly less invasive and traumatic than abortion.The adoption suggestion is more personal opinion than anything else. Obviously taking a pregnancy to term is a big deal for a 14 year old girl, and the arguement could be made that that would be less damaging to her than an early abortion. So, it's sort of a middle ground possition.

I would say that the adoption option is worse than the abortion, at least in most cases.A first trimester abortion is not very invasive, and needn't affect the life of the individual very much. Carrying the pregnancy to terms is muchmore dangerous, and sadly in most societies today it still impairs the persons sociallife, career etc./Soren

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The first three are clearly less invasive and traumatic than abortion.

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If it's simply a matter of time and expense (and the possibility of complications), then I understand. A lot of people say that they don't like abortion even though they think it should remain legal, and that they want to provide the services that would make abortion rare -- I always get the impression from these people that they still have some sort of emotional/moral qualms about abortion.A first trimester abortion is less expensive and has less risk of medical complications than carrying a baby to term (not to mention far, far less "traumatic") -- I wonder why people are so concerned about the trauma and invasiveness of abortion but don't worry so much about pregnancy in general?Me, I don't see any problems whatsoever with someone having an abortion. I suppose that I would like to see all the various methods of contraception easily available as well as better education and promotion of their use; but I don't see any of the other methods as inherently superior to an abortion, except for expense and convenience, I guess.

Abortion in a selfish, or irresponsible sense is wrong.Abortion in a life saving sense is for the parents to decide.This issue has been put to death many times before here at evc, and an issue that sometimes comes up is "when a being is a being". When should one start to care for that mass of cells, that might one day be a human? For me, this question is a simple one. In the future a being is what a cell may become. I don't like to discuss this topic, mainly because I have no experience in parenting. But I wouldn't of wanted to miss out on this beautiful thing called life.

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porteus@gmail.com

I often hear the Right suggesting abortion should be "illegal except in cases of rape and incest"I find this boggling.Is there anyone here who takes that stance and can you better explain your thinking?

That's pretty much my position.I think abortion is morally wrong because:You're killing a prospective person.Its a quick fix to a preventable problem.If you take the consequences away from the action then the action increases.It de-humanizes in utero babies.I think abortion should be legal because its the woman's choice, period. The life of the baby, ultimately, depends on the choices the mother makes and if she doesn't want to be pregnant then she can make choices that could lead to her losing her pregnancy. So, there should be a safe legal way for women to choice to not be pregnant, after the fact.