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Author Topic:   Investing In Inflation
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 46 of 85 (486010)
10-14-2008 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
10-14-2008 8:10 AM


Re: Central Banks
For one thing, China owns a big portion of the gold. Letting them come out on top is not in our best interests at this point in time.
Aha!! That wily old Buz is actually a secret Maoist socialist in disguise. I knew it. God bless China.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 10-14-2008 8:10 AM Phat has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 85 (486445)
10-20-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straggler
10-12-2008 11:16 AM


Re: Central Banks
If you are suggesting that central banks should be non-profit making institutions charged with maintaining the stability of a nations economy rather than pursuing their own selfish interests then I wholly agree.
There are a number of ways central banks of the Federal Reserve cash in at the expense of the citizenry. They can create whatever economy which benefits their interests the most at any given period by cycling artificial ups and downs of the $$ against foreign currencies and slowing down or speeding up the economy.
For example, they know ahead how the interest rates which they plan to manipulate will affect the commodity market relative to the value of the currencies, the price of gold and almost all of the commodities, and just about all sectors of the economy.
The central banks can dump gold at the top and then have the cash to buy it back at the bottom. This all factors in addition to the billions they receive from Fed interest over the period of a decade or so, in that they have the power to create and control the money supply.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Straggler, posted 10-12-2008 11:16 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Straggler, posted 10-20-2008 5:46 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 50 by subbie, posted 10-20-2008 7:02 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 48 of 85 (486446)
10-20-2008 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
10-20-2008 5:26 PM


Re: Central Banks
they have the power to create and control the money supply.
Surely that is the point?
The question is whether or not they are doing this to make profits for their own employess, shareholders, chief excutives etc. etc. etc. or in the interests of the country whose currency they attempt to manage.
What ultimately happens to all this money that you say the federal bank makes? Who ends up with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 5:26 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 6:28 PM Straggler has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 85 (486447)
10-20-2008 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Straggler
10-20-2008 5:46 PM


Re: Central Banks
Straggler writes:
What ultimately happens to all this money that you say the federal bank makes? Who ends up with it?
Bankers, lawyers and doctors all are in the position to exploit the folks, imo, particularly the bankers.
Like the medical profession, too often the personal profit motive underlies the primary interest of the power brokers. It's not at all simplistic. Many factors weigh into this. Certainly there are many good honest bankers but over time the system at large becomes somewhat of a powerful and extensive economic mafia which involves the business, political and monetary sectors of society.
I'm not saying I understand it in depth. I have the book, "None Dare Call It Treason." If I remember it was written by John Stormer back in the 1960s or so. I read it back then and learned a lot from it. I need to get it out and review it. I believer there's a newer version called, "None Dare Call It Treason (25 years later)." which I don't have. These were paperbacks. I have another sort of sequel to it which was called, "Dare Call It Treason" written by another author a few decades ago.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Straggler, posted 10-20-2008 5:46 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 10-21-2008 8:32 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 50 of 85 (486448)
10-20-2008 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
10-20-2008 5:26 PM


Re: Central Banks
quote:
...in addition to the billions they receive from Fed interest over the period of a decade or so....
Mind if I ask how long you're intending to ignore the facts I presented showing that the banks keep a very minimal amount of money, and that the vast majority of their income goes right back into the Treasury?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 5:26 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 10:20 PM subbie has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 85 (486451)
10-20-2008 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by subbie
10-20-2008 7:02 PM


Re: Central Banks
subbie writes:
Mind if I ask how long you're intending to ignore the facts I presented showing that the banks keep a very minimal amount of money, and that the vast majority of their income goes right back into the Treasury?
1. It still adds up to billions over the course of a decade. If Congress followed the Constitutional guidelines the cost to the folks would be minimized.
2. The interest charged to the people for the creation of money is not the biggie. The power to profit themselves as I've iterated is the most significant detriment to the monetary system and the welfare of the nation. Banks fail and get bailed out for the crisis they either created or were coerced by politicians and bureaucrats into implementing. Folks who play by sound rules become obligated to finance the wealthy and powerful individuals who create the crisis.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by subbie, posted 10-20-2008 7:02 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by subbie, posted 10-20-2008 11:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 52 of 85 (486453)
10-20-2008 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Buzsaw
10-20-2008 10:20 PM


Re: Central Banks
quote:
If Congress followed the Constitutional guidelines the cost to the folks would be minimized.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional. Please quote the Article, Section and Clause that you believe Congress violated when it created the Fed. It would also be helpful if, in the course of your analysis, you kept Article I, Section 8, Clause 18 in mind, which gives Congress the power
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
quote:
The power to profit themselves as I've iterated is the most significant detriment to the monetary system and the welfare of the nation.
Ah, the old moving the goalposts, eh? How refreshing.
It seems to me that whoever does the job that the Fed does would have the same opportunity for profit, so what difference does it make?
BTW, I'm still waiting for your answers to the half dozen or so questions I asked in Message 33 above. Are you ignoring those as well, or are you working on a reply? Just curious.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 10:20 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2008 7:21 PM subbie has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 53 of 85 (486478)
10-21-2008 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
10-20-2008 6:28 PM


Re: Central Banks
Bankers, lawyers and doctors all are in the position to exploit the folks, imo, particularly the bankers.
I have no doubt that there are unscrupulous bastards who are bankers. Investment bankers in particular.
But your accuasations seem to amount to more than that. You seem to be suggesting that the US central bank specifically is institutionally corrupt. You have also suggested that the system is almost setup to enable this institutional corruption.
Are you saying that the Fed is acting illegally?
Are you saying that the laws that the Bush administration has the power to change are inadequate to stop this "corruption" occurring legally?
Which is it?
What exactly is the Fed doing that you object to and is it illegal or not?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2008 6:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2008 7:43 PM Straggler has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 85 (486589)
10-22-2008 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by subbie
10-20-2008 11:09 PM


Re: Central Banks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
subbie writes:
Buzsaw writes:
If Congress followed the Constitutional guidelines the cost to the folks would be minimized.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional. Please quote the Article, Section and Clause that you believe Congress violated when it created the Fed. It would also be helpful if, in the course of your analysis, you kept Article I, Section 8, Clause 18 in mind, which gives Congress the power
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or office thereof.
Subbie, why don't you read and acknowledge the provisions of Article 8, like the following which relegates not only the power to coin money but the crucial power to regulate the value thereof to elected members of Congress, representing the folks and not to private banks who's interest can be to represent their own monetary interests?
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by subbie, posted 10-20-2008 11:09 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by kuresu, posted 10-23-2008 7:46 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 58 by subbie, posted 10-23-2008 7:53 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 85 (486591)
10-22-2008 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Straggler
10-21-2008 8:32 AM


Re: Central Banks
Straggler writes:
What exactly is the Fed doing that you object to and is it illegal or not?
Usurping power to control the amount of money coined/created, to regulate the value of money by raising and lowering interest rates and to regulate the amount of money circulated. It's not as simplistic as that, but that's what it amounts to.
As I understand it, most of the billions (which the Federal Reserve creates} paid by the government/folks to the banks to bail them out of their bad loans will go to the bank's vaults and they have no obligation to make it available to the folks for the stimulation of the economy.
That's a nice deal for the private businesses which went broke making bad judgment. That would've been nice for me and my business in the down years.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 10-21-2008 8:32 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-23-2008 5:27 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 78 by Straggler, posted 10-27-2008 7:18 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 85 (486608)
10-23-2008 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
10-22-2008 7:43 PM


The Amero and the dollapse of the U.S.Dollar
Buzsaw, check out this link and tell me what you know of it.I am, of course, skeptical, but I want to know more about the purpose for this Amero coin.
Also this CNBC link.
Edited by Phat, : added link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2008 7:43 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by kuresu, posted 10-23-2008 8:06 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 10-23-2008 8:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2512 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 57 of 85 (486614)
10-23-2008 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
10-22-2008 7:21 PM


Re: Central Banks
I suppose the president is acting in an unconstitutional manner when he negotiates trade deals, right?
You've heard of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, right? It's the last trade bill congress really passed. It raised individual tariffs on roughly 20,000 items--causing a trade-freeze and worsening the Great Depression (other countries retaliated by raising tariffs om USA-made goods). After that, congress said, all right, we'll have the president do this. Thus the Bretton Woods Agreement and the GATT (forerunner to the WTO).
Of course, you're misunderstanding of the constitution is quite clear. Clause 18 applies to all the powers of congress. Congress decided that a federal reserve system would be appropriate for regulating our currency. Congress doesn't print money either--it delegated that power to the treasury, an exectutive branch office. Is that unconstitutional?
Of course, there's little anyone can do to control the value of the USD because it's not on a fixed exchange rate (you can thank Nixon for taking us off gold and any semblance of a fixed exchange rate). Sweden, since you're so familiar with them, had a currency crisis in the early 90s, causing the central bank to raise interest rates to 500% in an effort to maintain a fixed exchange. Didn't work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2008 7:21 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 10-23-2008 8:47 AM kuresu has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 58 of 85 (486615)
10-23-2008 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
10-22-2008 7:21 PM


Re: Central Banks
Ignoring Clause 18 will not make it go away.
Oh, by the way, the Fed has nothing to do with coining money, that's the Bureau of Printing and Engraving, just in case you're confused about that as well.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 10-22-2008 7:21 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 10-23-2008 8:38 AM subbie has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2512 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 59 of 85 (486619)
10-23-2008 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
10-23-2008 5:27 AM


Re: The Amero and the dollapse of the U.S.Dollar
I wouldn't trust buz when it comes to monetary matters. If he can't understand the constitution (and buys into the conspiracy theory about income taxes, iirc).
I've never heard of the amero, but the quick reading I'm doing now suggests that it simply won't happen. Canadians don't like the idea of a single monetary union (they would have to adopt our monetary policies), mexicans (at least Vicente Fox) do, and americans have probably never heard of it.
At any rate, unlike the euro, where you have France, Germany, and Great Britian{abe*} all being relatively equal in terms of economic output (2 trillion GDP(ppp), 2.8 trillion, 2.1 trillion), Canada, Mexcio, and the US are nowhere near close (1.25 trillion, 1.35 trillion, and 13.8 trillion, again, GDP(ppp)). Europe also has, at least Western Europe, a similar economy. Canada, Mexico, and the US has disparate economies with quite different ideas as to what's best (and different realities for what's best). Not only is that an massive obstacle, the USD has a ton of advantages that could be lost or weakened by adopting a new currency.
Put simply, there is no reason the US would give up the advantages it has with its currency (which is actually gaining ground against other currencies, especially the SEK, where it's now one whole crown stronger than a month ago, or moving from 6.6 SEK-USD to 7.8 SEK-USD).
Read up on it on wiki.
{abe*} I forgot that Great Britain is not part of the EMU (euro). Silly me. Still, the EMU is spread over a region where there is no single, completely dominating economy.
Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-23-2008 5:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 85 (486620)
10-23-2008 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
10-23-2008 5:27 AM


Re: The Amero and the doll apse of the U.S.Dollar
Phat writes:
Buzsaw, check out this link and tell me what you know of it.I am, of course, skeptical, but I want to know more about the purpose for this Amero coin.
Hi Phat. Your first link doesn't work. As for the Amero, that is a likelihood as well as the open borders. This will likely evolve relatively soon into world currency and empowerment of world government, i.e. the Beast world power prophesied in Revelation 13, Revelation 17 in the NT and Daniel 7 in the OT. Revelation 13 prophesies a global monetary system of marks and numbers.
The global monetary events of the past month demonstrate how suddenly some of the prophetically significant events applicable to the end times of the Gentile age on planet earth can come to fruition.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-23-2008 5:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
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