Could the US become a theocracy ?

The ACLU recently defended JERRY FALWELL in a case, even though he has expressed his seething haterd for that organization on many occasions.

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Ever read the Handmaid's Tale? It wasn't quite so simple, but exteremely disturbing.

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I read it a long time ago. I have thought of it often over the last 4 years.We are so close to that being a reality.

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I also see the need for some absolute authority to restrict things that can destroy a country.

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That you seem to really believe this is quite frightening to me.It is the attitude that allows a steady slide into facism and the end of liberty and freedom and our very way of life here in America.You are expressing very, very un-American attitudes.

Not at all. I am just expressing the opposite end of the political spectrum than you are. People on this side are as scared of you as you are of us. Thats why I am not too conservative. Certainly I disagree with some of the extremes on both ends of the spectrum. I can see the issues, Mammuthus. For the religious conservative, children are victims of "original sin" and do not have the ability to make strong and right choices without guidence. For the liberal, guidence = restriction on freedom. For the right wing religious, God Himself insists on an authority structure as the best outcome. Freedom without authority was the result of the original sin.I think that a government totally free from any religious morality would probably be the fairest on a democratic level. I also fear that such a system would not be in the best interests of the future of humanity. What a conundrum. Conservatives fear liberals. Liberals fear Conservatives. Both sides care about how their children are raised. Indeed, it is the greatness of America that both sides can be heard!This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-08-2004 12:50 PM

Just to throw in my two cents here - I've heard nothing about this as well. Do you have any other info on it?I can't really say anything about Ireland, seeing as we're close to 90% Catholic, but in my experience we don't take religion all that serously - so I'm not sure what kind of effect it would have.

Hey Rock, then what was all this business of the IRA blowing up everything they could lay hands on? I always thought Ireland had some deep religeous contrasting issues. But then again maybe it is more regional than religious.

One minor point. In your opening post, you asked if the Supreme Court can strike down an amendment to the constitution once it has been passed.No. Once it has passed, it is part of the constitution and the judiciary has no power to change it.

The different denominations would still find a way to lamblast, ridicule and condemn each other to Hell. The Evangelicals trash the Catholics who trash the Mormons who trash the Baptists who trash the Episcopalians who trash the...I have absolute faith in the Great Unwashed to pontificate their moral values on each other from the pulpit, the court bench and the halls of Congress. I also have absolute faith that the "wrong" Christian running on a Theocratic ticket will be shredded in attack ads from his Christian bretheren.So grab yourself a court-side seat and watch the show. You can even throw a cup of water in their faces and watch them come at you with clenched fists in "righteous anger". Heck, this is more fun than battling the Chicago police in the 1968 Democratic convention.And this Theocratic nation will continue to shop at WalMart in which 70% of their merchandise comes from the godless-Christian-persecuting Chinese Commies.Don't 'cha just love it?(:raig

I think this has been kicked pretty good, but I would ask what do you think was the downfall for France and England (I would consider each of them to have been historical theocracies) then? Were they preserved anymore or any longer by their theocracy?

Not quite. Go back and look at your own posts. I care about how my kids are raised, but religious conservatives care about how my kids are raised as well.See, that's the problem. They think they know better and are trying to enforce their views on everyone else, which is exactly what I am not doing. I am just wanting to live the only life I have, and raise the only family I will ever get, the only way I think is right. That appears not to be good enough for the religious.To make matters worse, they must be able to proselytize their beliefs to me during gov't hours that I am paying for with my taxes. I am not asking that right, nor have I forced an "athiest based" initiative on the US public, taxing the religious so that my athiest friends can tell them how wrong they are with their religious beliefs when they go to the social security office.This idea that conservatives are scared of liberals and vice versa is a nice comforting idea for you I am sure. The problem is that it is just the conservatives scared of liberals. The liberals... and I guess from your use of these terms social rather than religious conservatives fall in this too... are not scared of the conservatives, only what they are doing with the gov't to get their ideas imposed on others.Before making any more comments, perhaps you can detail one government program which actively proselytizes atheist or agnostic beliefs to you. Or name one nonreligious NGO, which is allowed to not hire religious people while working with US tax dollars because the person is not religious.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Not at all. I am just expressing the opposite end of the political spectrum than you are.

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The Founders were quite emphatic in leaving any kind of "moral absolutes" out of our constitution in particular and out of the realm of government interference in general.You are correct that you are expressing the far right political view, which is facist or dictatorial, but my point is that this view is very, very un-American.If the founders were alive today they would be horrified by your idea that the government should be imposing moral absolutes to the extent you suggest.

Don't be so sure what they would express horror at. They may look around and see how society has changed. They may get to view some movies and T.V. They may get to dee the issues that would never have been understood or accepted by folks in their day. They would be horrified, allright, but it would not be because of the religious conservatives.

I wonder just how many people in the states really support a theocracy, knowing that so many are christian fundies.

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

Er. Strictly speaking, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and not the Republic of Ireland. Yes, they take religion more seriously - but the argument seems to be concentrated on making the North part of Ireland again or keeping it part of the UK.This message has been edited by IrishRockhound, 12-08-2004 05:11 PM

Other than movies, tv, and radio being new mediums for communication, they had all the same things being discussed back then as they do today. Indeed other than extra gadgets they were doing the same things back then as we do today.Have you read any of the books by libertines of that era, of which mssr Franklin was assuredly a part of? They have stories that would be downright illegal to write today. No joke, 1700-early 1800's porn puts today's stuff to shame. I think they just had a news blurb on that recently as well, where one of the oldest porn books in England got auctioned off. The people noted that the stories were much more daring.My guess is that religious fundies would be more shocked if they went back in time and saw how the founding fathers lived, than vice versa.You know many of them had mistresses and engaged in duels and... well you get the picture.If the Founding Fathers rose from their graves they would probably be surprised at the technology we have today, be impressed with the accumulated prosperity, cry rivers at "in god we trust" being stamped on money, as well as the pledge of allegience (with or without "under God" they disliked such oath taking).Then they'd wonder why they had to show ID to get a simple beer or smoke, not to mention having to leave the building to smoke at all. Then they'd look puzzled that they're being arrested for hiring a prostitute. And finally they'd find out about the faith based initiatives and drop dead again.Its what we can't do, or must do, in the name of "security" and "create a decent society" that would shock the hell out of them.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)