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Member (Idle past 6380 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Could the US become a theocracy ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Once we told them that medical science has advanced so that we now understand that second hand smoke is injurious to others besides the smoker, I am sure they would understand their need to smoke away from others. Schraf, don't you remember that I disproved this to you about a year ago? Unless something has popped up more recently, the second hand smoke thing is just as much hokum as it was back then. Penn & Teller did a great Bullshit! episode debunking it as well. Indeed they took apart the same study you had offered me as evidence and I had taken apart. Urggggh. This is the kind of stuff I really get upset by. Do you have new facts at this point? If not, why are you still trotting out your original position which had been successfully countered? To be honest, I don't think they'd be impressed in any case. If you wanted to have a bar where people smoked, as long as people were free to chose not to go there, they wouldn't want laws preventing you from allowing smoking. That's called freedom. The new freedom which is:" I should be able to go anywhere I want and not be offended... or put at risk... by behaviors that the owners and other patrons might like" is not freedom. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3938 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Mathew 7:14 - For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Kind of makes you wonder about that verse dosen't it? What happens when the few in reality are the many? Should watchful Christians be suspicious of a rise in organized religion?
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Imagine if job hiring practice at the goverment level was contingent upon your religious beliefs...want welfare? better start praying to jesus. Well in a way this is already true. Gov't agencies are now employing faithbased contractors to fulfill gov't services and it has already been stated that they can refuse to hire if you are not a jesus worshipper. This includes welfare and job placement services. I watched a terrifying tv segment (can't remember if it was a documentary, or news program) looking at a contracting service handling unemployment/job placement. They'd always try to push the Xian run programs, and then ask the people coming to that gov't office to go to church with them. It followed one unemployed woman as she went in and started to take their advice and go to the church related work programs, then started going to church. In the end she didn't like it and wanted out but was now feeling awkward because she still needed the help but didn't feel right having to turn these people down and still get help from them. In addition, the people approached her children and got them in even as the lady wanted out they were putting pressure on her children to remain in. I was totally creeped out. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I will not agree that the ACLJ is a threat to America I didn't say the ACLJ was a threat to America. You made a claim that it was just interested in defending rights of Xians. That was false. Indeed you made it appear that it was necessary to counter the ACLU, when it has been shown that the ACLU would have been just as likely to take on the cases you mentioned. The ACLJ is trying to change America, by advancing evangelical morals into the government system. That is bad. Thankfully it is not a threat because it is not that strong yet.
You guys need to see both sides as well as I do! Maybe we do see both sides, and you are the one that is not. All I know is that I am not trying to force anyone else to believe what I do, using the power of the government. The same cannot be said for the "other side".
They would soon see a godless one world government Well I'm not for a one world gov't so I hope not. Neither am I for everyone being godless. However if you mean that all gov'ts will be godless, then what is wrong with that? holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What happens when the few in reality are the many? Should watchful Christians be suspicious of a rise in organized religion? A very, very significant point. I have never been attacked for my faith by any of the Atheists on this board, only by alleged Christians, those from the Fundamentalist side. Should the US become a Theocracy the first target will likely be Christians such as myself. But a rise in power of the Fundamentalist Christian Church is one of the biggest threats around, far bigger than any Terrorist threat. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6502 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote:In a free and democratic society, you are free to believe this....just as I am free to believe that 1) there is no evidence for a person called jesus and even if, he was no god 2) my kids needs are none of your business and that I can raise my family the way I see fit. In a theocracy, you would force me and my kids to have your beliefs rammed down our throats on the penalty of legal action, financial terror or death. This is what the "other" side that you claim most of us here don't understand are gunning for..and ironically on in the name of freedom and patriotism. This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 12-10-2004 02:47 AM
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6502 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: In the context of jar's question, I was trying indicate what I thought would happen under a full fledged fundamenatalist theocracy. I have also heard of similar programs that are legally allowed to exlcude based on religious beliefs yet receive tax money...
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I have also heard of similar programs that are legally allowed to exlcude based on religious beliefs yet receive tax money... Actually I am a little intrigued, now that you've said in Germany they have churches collecting taxes. Do they have other church-state functions as well? One thing that has me amused by the EU is that it contains such diverse gov't setups. You have total secular nations like France and sec-rel hybrids like Germany, as well as full democracies like France and dem-monarch hybrids like the Netherlands. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6502 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: Not nationally...like the Church of England. Germany has Ueber catholic Bavaria in the south but much of the north is protestant. So there is no national church i.e. to run for office you don't have to be catholic. There are also state employees who are muslim i.e. 3 million Turks live in the country and some are state employees. It is also not clear to me that one has to be exclusively Christian (though my father in law tells me it is a factor) to be a politician even in the Christian Democratic Union. One of the top political commentators and members of the CDU is jewish (Michelle Friedman). The tax the churches collect via the government payroll is a holdover in part from the Nazi payments to have the churches turn away from their misdeeds...the war ended, nazi's lost power but the church held on to the tax. The irony of the church taxes and political parties with Xian in their names is that Germany like most of europe has become more and more secular...so maybe the more the churches impose themselves on people in the US, the more people will turn away from religion entirely ....I would say the only benefit of Bavarian catholocism that I have experienced is that we get a ton of extra holidays that nobody else does
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
One of the top political commentators and members of the CDU is jewish (Michelle Friedman). To be fair, maybe she's a jew for jesus.
I would say the only benefit of Bavarian catholocism that I have experienced is that we get a ton of extra holidays that nobody else does Try being in a Xian oriented, monarchy. It seems like every other week there's another holiday. And of course if you throw in the true national religion of football... well then. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
OK, if you want to dismiss the findings of over 30 studies and the opinion of the EPA, the US Surgeon General, the National Academy of Sciences, and the National Cancer institute, be my guest.
404 Error - American College of Chest Physicians
Environmental Exposures Before and After Birth Can Harm Children's Lungs Asthma Symptoms in Infants Caused by Combustion Pollutantsand Tobacco Smoke (NORTHBROOK, IL, October 11, 2004) — Children prenatally exposed to pollutants, such as motor vehicle exhaust, and postnatally exposed to environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) may be more likely to suffer from asthma and related symptoms early in life. A new study in the October issue of CHEST, the peer-reviewed journal of the American College of Chest Physicians, shows that young children who are exposed to these pollutants may be significantly more likely to develop respiratory conditions at ages 12 and 24 months. "A great deal of new evidence suggests that the respiratory system may be vulnerable to damage caused by inhaled environmental agents during the prenatal period," said Rachel L. Miller, MD, the study's lead author at the Columbia Center for Children's Environmental Health, part of the Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health, New York, NY. "This study indicates that the combination of exposure to combustion by-products in the womb and to second-hand smoke during infancy can cause significantly more respiratory problems than either exposure on its own," added Dr. Frederica Perera, the study's Principal Investigator and Director of the Center. http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/10_18.htm
Health Effects Associated With ETS Exposure In 1986, two landmark reports were published on the association between ETS exposure and the adverse health effects in nonsmokers: one by the U.S. Surgeon General and the other by the Expert Committee on Passive Smoking, National Academy of Sciences' National Research Council (NAS/NRC). Both of these reports concluded that: ETS can cause lung cancer in healthy adult nonsmokers; Children of parents who smoke have more respiratory symptoms and acute lower respiratory tract infections, as well as evidence of reduced lung function, than do children of nonsmoking parents; and Separating smokers and nonsmokers within the same air space may reduce but does not eliminate a nonsmoker's exposure to ETS. In 1992, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) confirmed the above findings in its study on the respiratory health effects of ETS. In addition, the EPA classified ETS as a Group A carcinogena category reserved only for the most dangerous cancer-causing agents in humans. The EPA report, a compilation of 30 epidemiological studies that focused on the health risks of nonsmokers with smoking spouses, concluded that there is a strong association between ETS exposure and lung cancer. Scientists estimate that ETS is responsible for approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths per year among nonsmokers in the United States. Recent studies and the EPA's report point to a 20—percent increased risk of lung cancer in nonsmokers due to ETS. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-10-2004 09:16 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You are free to think this, just as I am free to think that my kids AND your kids need to never blindly believe anything just because it makes them feel good. However, it's not unbelievers like me trying to get control of the government in order to get a philosophy like mine instilled as doctrine that everyone must follow. It is believers in your religion who are trying to get control of the government to force me to follow YOUR beliefs and YOUR religion. I am happy to live and let live. Your side is not content to leave me and mine the heck alone.
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you think that smoking should be allowed in the workplace, in office buildings?
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
Please drop the smoking discussion or take it to another thread and try to stick to the TOPIC?
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to: Change in Moderation? (General discussion of moderation procedures) or Thread Reopen Requests or Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum or Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
OK, but he started it.
(pouts sullenly)
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