Geology- working up from basic principles.

Well consider this statement he made: So you see if God made the formations all at once then their position, above or below, does not indicate relative age. Although I'm sure you see it and he doesn't, this is the same argument of stating that the world was created 1 minute ago, and the entire concept of a past in time is an illusion created by God.However he also said this: Now I'm going to assume this means what it says, and that he has actually thought about this (both probably a big mistake).He appears to be saying that "geology" at creation has no LoS, but that the geologic column came into existence with the flood or after it.Since we can observe the LoS in action today there is no reason to suggest it was not in action going all the way back to the flood.This means tha Vashgun is really saying that geology has pre-LoS formations and post LoS formations.For this to be true and us to accept it, all he has to do is show us where this worldwide boundary is.I doubt he can do that, and I further doubt he has actually looked at any sequence of rocks/formations in person. That's the only way one could continue to believe the nonsense he has stated.Edited by petrophysics, : missed a [qs]

Hi RAZD, Actually that is not necessary. You see RAZD, you have taken the bait, like most others, because you are not a geologist.This is merely an expierment which shows the deposition of a classic Gilbert delta. It was first described and explained by G.K.Gilbert looking at a delta at Lake Bonneville, Utah in 1885.Yes, that is correct. This deposition has been known to geologists for 125 years. It is taught in introductory stratigraghy because its the simpilest form of deltaic deposition.It's not something new, an expierment done in 1998 or 2007 which shows something we geologists knew for the last 125 years is not ground breaking news. However, if you are not a geologist, you might buy the shit that this is something geology hasn't noticed.You fell for it in part but our chemical engineer friend in Australia grabbed it hook, line and sinker.The following is important.Formations and their boundaries ARE NOT time lines. In special instances they could be, but in general they are not.Let me explain this using the Mississippi delta today. I'm going to simplify it a bit to make it easier to understand.A time line is the surface of the earth today, right now.If we look at the Mississippi River and delta system right now, we see many different types of deposition occuring at the EXACT same time.North of New Orleans we have river deposits, point bars, cravasse splays, oxbow lakes along with all the associated plants, animals, organic material and sediments we see in this environment. Let's call this "River Deposits".South of New Orleans as we approach the coast we have swamp deposits. Low areas with lots of water having abundant plant life but not strong sand deposition except in some small areas.Let's call this "Swamp Deposits".At the mouth of the Mississippi River it is dumping sand into the standing water of the Gulf of Mexico. This sand being deposited is called a destributary mouth bar(DMB). It has like the river and swamp areas a particular sand deposition, along with associated plants, animals, and organic material.Farther out to sea, the sand can't make it out there. We see very fined grained sediments. Clays and some silts. NOTE: clay, silt, sand and gravel ARE GRAIN SIZES, they have nothing to do with a particular grains mineralogy. These sediments we will call "pro-delta".Now lets look at what happens as this complex progrades out into the Gulf Of Mexico trying to fill it in. All of these environments will move seaward if the delta is prograding/trying to fill in the Gulf of Mexico.At some point in time the river deposits will be where the mouth of the river is now. At that point if we drill a well, we will see in our core or cutting , from the top down....
1.river deposits
2.swamp deposits
3.distributary mouth bar deposits
4.pro-delta depositsNow, a formation is a unit which can be mapped.So I might map the river deposits as a formation, but I never think they all happened at the same time. Nor does any other geologist.If I am looking, in a borehole or vertical section at the rocks, I know that everything in this borehole from bottom to top goes from older to younger, unless I have a recumbent fold or a reverse fault I passed through.So in a vertical section, a borehole or a measured section, I know that the DMB is older that the river deposits, but that upsteam there are river deposits the same age as my DMBs.Sorry, I have to go, I have to do my morning report on the 6 gas wells I'm drilling for EnCana Oil and Gas.If you have a question I'll be back later.

Hi Coragyps,No, I consult for them in the Jonah gas field in west central Wyoming, Green River Basin. I consult in the Rockies and drill my own prospects in the Texas/Oklahoma Panhandles and Eastern Colorado (shelf area of the Anadarko Basin). Basically Pennslyvanian Morrow sand plays.Keep it separate so I don't have a conflict of interest.My wife consults for Anschutz up in Manning , N.D. geosteering wells in the Bakken play.Down 9800 ft. and then lateral for 2 miles in the 14 foot wide Bakken zone.Things have picked up a small amount, but last year we were drilling with 16 rigs, went down to 4 and now up to 6. Would like to see things pick up a bit better so I can get back up into the top 1% of US income earnors instead of just being in the upper 2%.Lived through the oil crash in the 80's, I'll make it again.THIS IS AN OFF TOPIC POST....ALTHOUGH I COULD CHANGE IT TO MAKE IT ON TOPIC BY SHOWING HOW YOU CAN USE GEOLOGY TO MAKE A VERY GOOD LIVING, FLOOD GEOLOGY ONLY WORKS IF YOU ARE PASSING A COLLECTION PLATE.Stay tuned....I have more geologic wisdom to pass out, but now back to work.

Hi Percy,Do you think sediment drops from the sky all at once?If it doesn't, then it is a transgressional or a regressive/progradational deposit.Which means it DID NOT HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME.Ash falls, or all the diatoms dying the in winter and settling out are very close to a time line,but almost everything else you look at is either prograding/regressing or transgressing.You are doing 200 year old geology!Stop it.It is the strawman the world wide flood people are setting you up with.Face it, you did not spot that the recently posted articles were nothing more than the deposition of a Gilbert delta.You did not spot, or did he,that in the article posted by our chemical engineer from Australia that quartz is NOT denser than limestone. He says it in the article, quartz is denser than limestone. But quartz has a S.G. of 2.65 while calcite is 2.71.The second article posted actually shows you why there could not have been a worldwide flood.Did you see it? The people who wrote it were too stupid to see it, and they figured you would be to.They show that a stream flowing into standing water creates high dip cross beds and that they are deposited and go upstream as sea level rises.What does that mean? Well it means EVERY single stream and river valley must have these high angle transgressive sand deposits in their river valleys if sea level rose worldwide, that is if a worldwide flood occured.But they are not there. Go out to your nearest river and look for them. These guys showed us what to look for if a flood occured and it's not there.I already knew that but thought I'd point it out.

I stand by what I said. I did address your point you just didn't understand it.Let's take the Morrow Formation which I explore for oil and gas in. I can trace it from east central Colorado down into central Oklahoma, over 450 miles.Are you telling me the top of it is the same age across 450 miles. How do you do that? Does the sand fall from the sky at the same time.Maybe a better explanation is that it prograded over time from Colorado and the Ancestral Rockies to Central Oklahoma. Which of course means its top is NOT a time line.Actual time lines make a very big difference when you are making oil and gas prospects.If formations are time lines....it should be no problem for you to name me 20 that are time lines. Off hand after 35 years doing this I can't. That's because most formations are transgressive or regressive/progradational events. They are moving laterally over time.Read Edge's posts, he has it right as well, but it just went over everyone's head including yours. Ask him, or Joe Meert if you don't believe me. Actually this makes no sense and shows me you didn't understand what I said.Once again formation boundaries are not time lines, except in special circumstances...when you figure out why that is true....you will actually know something about geology.If you think they are, you do not understand deposition, sedimentation or stratigraphy.As an aside, did you take a college course in stratigraphy and one in sedimentation?

Hi PercyMaybe a bit of a misunderstanding. I find unknown and undiscovered oil and gas deposits for a living.What that makes me do, is pick an exact drilling location. I have to justify that location with my geology. I do not have the option of saying "well that's a time line over a couple of million years should be close enough and the sand should be somewhere around here".My investors are going to front $350 grand to see if I'm right. On that scale, I have to have the time lines right so that my depositional interpretation is correct.Is it important?You decide. A single well in a deltaic distributary mouth bar in the Morrow Formation will make about 10 billion cubic feet of gas, that's $60,000,000 . For me, the geologist, if he takes a lowly 2% royalty interest that's $1,200,000.Percy, I really don't have the option of your, "it's close enough to a time line" attitude. This has to be done right or the investors won't come back.I don't make a living writing scientific papers..........unless I can find oil in the ground, I'll go broke, but that hasn't happened in the last 35 years.

Now you are getting the idea. It took me a while to find the following slide show, it is excellent. I found it googling "layer cake stratigrahy" a kind of derogatory term used by sedimentary geologists.It is only 27 slides and you go through left clicking your mouse. Pay careful attention to the rocks and depositional environments ("geologic habitats") shown in the 3 d diagrams. when you get to slide 10, pay careful attention to the bottom where you see the formation boundaries and the time lines.http://www.geology.wmich.edu/barnes/geos435/18_G435.ppsYou might find this short article of interest as well.Geologic Misconceptions: “Layer-cake” stratigraphy | Clastic DetritusOr this quote from Tanner (Geology Department, Florida State University You asked our YEC friend to show you somewhere in the real world where that experimental flume deposition occured. Have a look at the Gilbert deltas in Maine. Foreset/crossbeds from 10-25 degrees deposited in water. Check the photos out.I also know where an excellent one is near McCoy, Colorado. I'm going through there in a few days. I get some pictures.Maine Geological Survey: Maine ACF Edited by petrophysics1, : No reason given.Edited by petrophysics1, : typosEdited by petrophysics1, : another typo