Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What do you believe is true, even though you cannot prove it?
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2849 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 31 of 34 (495100)
01-20-2009 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by FliesOnly
01-20-2009 3:06 PM


Re: What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?
yawn.. I think I need more coffee..
The point of my post is about the existence of belief being operative in most people.
Fine...but that's called a "hypothesis". And their test hypothesis was shown to be incorrect.
And what was it called before the 'test hypothesis' was put forth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by FliesOnly, posted 01-20-2009 3:06 PM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by FliesOnly, posted 01-21-2009 9:15 AM shalamabobbi has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 32 of 34 (495147)
01-21-2009 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by shalamabobbi
01-20-2009 8:34 PM


Re: What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?
shalamabobbi writes:
The point of my post is about the existence of belief being operative in most people.
Fine...but that's what you said in post 26. Here it is again, just to remind you.
shalamabobbi in post 26 writes:
I think that many of the theories of science were believed before there was any evidence, and that the belief is what propelled scientists to devise experiments to find the evidence to support the theory.
Bold mine
Now, how am I to interpret that in any other way than you thinking that scientists pull theories out of the asses and then conduct experiments to support those theories?
The part where you said "I think that many of the theories of science were believed before there was any evidence"...seems pretty unambiguous to me. How did I misinterpret that?
shalamabobbi writes:
The point of my post is about the existence of belief being operative in most people.
That's not how it actually works in science. The scientific method is the mechanism that PREVENTS ones on personal biases (i.e. "belief being operative in most people") from influencing experimental design and results.
shalamabobbi writes:
And what was it called before the 'test hypothesis' was put forth?
It could have been called any number of things...a "thought" perhaps. Or maybe an "idea". Who knows. What I do know, is that it was NOT called a theory.
Look, actual scientists do not devise experiments in such a manner to get the results they want. That kind of bullshit would never stand up to scientific scrutiny...peer review. Instead, they put forth testable hypotheses (in the form of a test hypothesis and a null hypothesis)...conduct an experiment...and see which one is supported.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-20-2009 8:34 PM shalamabobbi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by shalamabobbi, posted 01-21-2009 3:05 PM FliesOnly has not replied

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2849 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 33 of 34 (495209)
01-21-2009 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by FliesOnly
01-21-2009 9:15 AM


Re: What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?
Thanks FliesOnly for your response.
I am a little lax in my use of the word for a couple of reasons. One, I presumed this was a less rigorous place to post and two, it has been some time since I attended university and had to prepare for and take exams.
My apologies. Anyhow..
It could have been called any number of things...a "thought" perhaps. Or maybe an "idea". Who knows. What I do know, is that it was NOT called a theory.
The only point of my post is that belief is operative at the lowest level. If there is only data to constrain between 10 different possibilities, and no way to prioritize the choices between those possibilities, the choice will be made to address the possibility that corresponds to the experimenter's perception of which makes the most sense to him. That is the level I refer to as belief. And the fact that other words can be used in place of the word belief I think demonstrates that it has become the 'b' word as of late, which strikes me as a little silly, that's all. There is a great deal of philosophy intermixed with science and there really is no way to avoid that. Which metaphysical viewpoint one accepts is also a belief.
Don't interpret my remarks to mean I support unsubstantiated beliefs. I am merely pointing out that they have to exist at some level and that imagining that people think without belief playing a roll is not accurate.
The scientific method is the mechanism that PREVENTS ones on personal biases (i.e. "belief being operative in most people") from influencing experimental design and results.
It may be that science is now more disciplined in this regard than it was some decades ago. I only said that the choice of experiment was a biased process, whether that is no longer the case I do not know. Do experiments now have to be approved? Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by FliesOnly, posted 01-21-2009 9:15 AM FliesOnly has not replied

  
thief
Junior Member (Idle past 5532 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 34 of 34 (495654)
01-23-2009 7:41 PM


Thief here
I believe that eternal darkness is physically real.
As we lay down to breath our last breath, our friends and relatives will gather to lament...'he's gone'.
The body goes in the box...the box goes into the ground.
No form of light follows a man into the grave.
No sunlight..no moonlight..no starlight..no philosophical light.
It really is dark down there.
I also believe I can escape this fate.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024