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Author Topic:   The predictions of Walt Brown
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 260 (179463)
01-21-2005 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Coragyps
01-21-2005 7:42 PM


cool!
quote:
. But if you do, be sure and include a mechanism to heat rocks down to the deepest we've drilled yet, and then cool them from that point to Walt's mile-thick magically-supported cavern. And then heat them again to provide magma for volcanos.
If the continents did slide quickly, as Walt proposed, could not this give us a lot of heat down say, to around 15-20 miles ? If the extrapolations you mentioned that explain the stuff below that are very wrong, still, it would give us hot ones up here, no? If then the stsrting temperature for the water below was much more normal, perhaps the steamed hotdog type analogies are of no real value. Not that I say it is for sure all wrong, as you know, we'd have to have some evidence for saying that. If you say, well, how could the water get down there in the first place without getting hot? I would have to point out they got down there some thousand and a half years before the claimed parting of the continents. I think it was tacitly admitted it is more or less just extrapolation and theory beyond that distance involved here anyhow!?

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 Message 179 by Coragyps, posted 01-21-2005 7:42 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by DrJones*, posted 01-21-2005 8:27 PM simple has replied
 Message 196 by JonF, posted 01-22-2005 9:26 AM simple has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 182 of 260 (179466)
01-21-2005 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by simple
01-21-2005 8:20 PM


Re: cool!
If the extrapolations you mentioned that explain the stuff below that are very wrong
How could the extraploations be wrong? What factors would cause this supposed error? Please supply the evidence that would suggest that these extrapolations are wrong. Do you know what an extrapolation is?

*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 8:20 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by CK, posted 01-21-2005 8:31 PM DrJones* has not replied
 Message 185 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 9:25 PM DrJones* has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4204 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 183 of 260 (179468)
01-21-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by DrJones*
01-21-2005 8:27 PM


Re: cool!
I have an idea that I think you have all missed. I think that god created thor who made it rain and rain and rain. I think that it would rain a mile for everything thor tugged on his magic hammer. How many tugs would thor have to do on his magic hammer to cover the earth?
If I have made any mistakes please just insert god dunn it where you feel is needed?

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 260 (179475)
01-21-2005 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by CK
01-21-2005 8:31 PM


Re: cool!
If I had a nickel for every time they told me there were no white crows! Your line, 20 years ago, one of the first million times it was parroted like a borg, was a little funny. Perhaps you can update your attempted wise humor a little?

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 260 (179476)
01-21-2005 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by DrJones*
01-21-2005 8:27 PM


Re: cool!
quote:
How could the extraploations be wrong?
Not all extraps are perfact, you know.
a few words from a post here ""Yeah, indirect evidence, mostly"
"If their measured temperature is too much lower than actual, the cement can set too soon. This can ruin a $20,000,000 well. The investors get upset over such things.
An extrapolation of those numbers has you ....."
Coragyps"
So, besides some heat down there, which was already talked about, what you got?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by DrJones*, posted 01-21-2005 9:39 PM simple has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 186 of 260 (179477)
01-21-2005 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by simple
01-21-2005 9:25 PM


Re: cool!
So, besides some heat down there, which was already talked about, what you got?
No, its your turn to explain why these extrapolations could be wrong. You're saying that the current knowledge of geology is flawed, you have to support this. What evidence do you have that these extrapolations are wrong?
edited to add: per Nosey's suggestion below
from Inside the Earth - Enchanted Learning
edited again: read Nosey's link below for the evidence.
This message has been edited by DrJones*, 01-21-2005 21:59 AM
This message has been edited by DrJones*, 01-21-2005 22:01 AM

*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 9:25 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2005 9:46 PM DrJones* has not replied
 Message 188 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 10:03 PM DrJones* has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 187 of 260 (179482)
01-21-2005 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by DrJones*
01-21-2005 9:39 PM


earth's interior temps
I do think it is fair to ask for a listing of the evidences for the internal temperature of the earth.
I'm not a geologist so I gotta google around a little. I'll add what I can find.
ABE
Here is a simplistic explanation.
http://www.madsci.org/.../archives/mar97/856964891.Es.r.html
It seems we can know about some of the properties of parts of the interior based on the seismic waves. This confirms that some parts are hot enough to be liquid.
This it seems is carried over to the mantle and higher:
http://www.madsci.org/...chives/Jan2003/1043946475.Es.r.html
Perhaps this will help (but I haven't read it yet)
404: Content Not Found | The Tech Interactive
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 01-21-2005 22:13 AM

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 260 (179483)
01-21-2005 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by DrJones*
01-21-2005 9:39 PM


get down to it
quote:
No, its your turn to explain why these extrapolations could be wrong
In the context of this thread, loosely based on ideas from Walt, I gave a possible cause already to where heat in the top area of the crust would be a result of this hydroplate sliding. Now I would expect that some may say, hey, we got seimic waves as well, etc. To which I or some other may say, well, this really works in my favor, etc. Since we are talking about the foundation of science almost, looking at this aspect, I expect overpowering, swift, and irrefutible responses. You know, how we know what happens under pressure and stuff.
So far, I have simple proposed Walt's mechanism of continental movement as an alternative source for heat.
We get down then to the heart, and crux of the matter here, the foundation stones, and the source for a lot of long age reasoning, as we get real low down.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by DrJones*, posted 01-21-2005 10:11 PM simple has not replied
 Message 190 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2005 10:14 PM simple has replied
 Message 197 by JonF, posted 01-22-2005 9:29 AM simple has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 189 of 260 (179485)
01-21-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by simple
01-21-2005 10:03 PM


Re: get down to it
I gave a possible cause already to where heat in the top area of the crust would be a result of this hydroplate sliding.
and what evidence do you have for this?

*not an actual doctor

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 Message 188 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 10:03 PM simple has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 190 of 260 (179486)
01-21-2005 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by simple
01-21-2005 10:03 PM


Re: get down to it
The first thing you can do now is explain the nature of the propagation of seismic waves through the earth according to Walt's model.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by simple, posted 01-21-2005 10:03 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by simple, posted 01-22-2005 12:08 AM NosyNed has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 260 (179512)
01-22-2005 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by NosyNed
01-21-2005 10:14 PM


wave it away
Can you be more specific?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2005 10:14 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2005 12:14 AM simple has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 192 of 260 (179515)
01-22-2005 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by simple
01-22-2005 12:08 AM


more specificity
Can you be more specific?
Seismic waves behave in a particular way. They act, to some degree, like a ultrasound scan of the earth. This behaviour is a diagnostic in the same way the ultrasound is. It is a way of looking into the earth.
The conclusions from this diagnostic tell a number of things about the internal structure and nature of the earth.
If you do not agree with these conclusions then you need to start (or Walt does) from the measured seismic data and construct a model which accounts for that data AND produces a different picture of the inside of the earth.
It has to take into account lab measurements of the properties of the materials too, of course.
Until this is accomplished there is no reason to give the slightest credance to any rantings by anyone. Anyone can make things up. They don't count until they are somewhat soundly backed up.
Saying something could be wrong isn't helpful. You have to suggest why it might be, where, by how much and explain why if it is wrong it works in a number of ways.
That is the very stringent requirements that scientists hold their collegues to. Anything less than that isn't going to be paid any attention to and shouldn't be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by simple, posted 01-22-2005 12:08 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by simple, posted 01-22-2005 12:39 AM NosyNed has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 260 (179525)
01-22-2005 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by NosyNed
01-22-2005 12:14 AM


Re: more specificity
quote:
The conclusions from this diagnostic tell a number of things about the internal structure and nature of the earth.
Yes, such as, I believe that S waves don't go through the core, because they cannot pennetrate liquid. Now normally we think of hat liquid, However, for example, water is a liquid! Then, down ath the moho we note achange, etc. I don't dispute something is affecting waves, even that a liquid would be doing it. This is why I say, specifically, what is it about Walt's continental plates or whatever, that you see as different in affecting the waves? I don't simply discount science, after all, simply enjoy seeing where it goes wrong once in a while. No one says there are no seismic waves, or inner earth, or core, etc.
quote:
It has to take into account lab measurements of the properties of the materials too, of course.
This is good, no one got too uptight at another explanation for heat near the surface. Then waves were raised as something to look at. We still are looking at them, but it seems you already are raising the next line of defense! I like this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2005 12:14 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2005 12:44 AM simple has replied
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 194 of 260 (179527)
01-22-2005 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by simple
01-22-2005 12:39 AM


Re: more specificity
The current understanding is published and written up all over the place.
Where is Walt's? I have read some of his stuff and it doesn't seem to explain anything. There don't seem to be any calculations at all.
You used the word "liquid". What liquid? Once you have chosen the liquid what effect would that have on things like the magnetic field and density of the earth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by simple, posted 01-22-2005 12:39 AM simple has replied

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 260 (179530)
01-22-2005 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by NosyNed
01-22-2005 12:44 AM


down to it
[quote]The origin of the Earth's magnetic field is not
completely understood, but is thought to be associated with electrical currents produced by the coupling of
convective effects and rotation in the spinning liquid metallic outer core of iron and nickel. This mechanism is termed
the dynamo effect. "" the Earth's magnetic field reverses itself every million years or so
(the north and south magnetic poles switch). This is but one detail of the magnetic field that is not well understood. " http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/earth/magnetic.html
So if we had it wrong on earth's center, you ask me what effect it would have on the magnetic field? Well, if we understood fully, even the magnetic field orgin, I suppose we might have a better chance at answering that. The same site says "magnetic fields are produced by the motion of electrical charges. " So it begs the other question, what things can accomplish this? Would you suggest only great heat?

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