What makes a terrorist a terrorist?

I think we're kinda missing the point when we talk about "innocent" victims. The aim of terrorism is not to kill the victims - it's to terrorize the survivors.

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Very few incidents would qualify as terrorism under that definition. Maybe 9/11. But the insurgency in Iraq, for example, is a form of self-defense carried out by the weak against the strong. Similarly, in Israel/Palestine, both sides are "defending themselves" from perceived agression.Malice and hatred can be a factor in almost any human endeavour, but it isn't really a "defining" factor. Like George Washington and his bunch?

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Hamas and Hezbollah would say the same thing.The real self-delusion is pretending that what somebody else does is terrorism but what we do is patriotism.

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"Prosecuting" Allah's cause or defending Allah's cause - same thing. Allah's cause or Allah's people's cause - same thing."Defending" yourself by invading a foreign country? Or defending your own country by attacking foreign invaders? Which is "terrorism"?

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Makes no difference. We're talking about the motivation here. What makes a terrorist a terrorist? You know not whereof you speak.
In fact, I am very pro-Israeli (if not necessarily pro-Israeli-government).I have not said I agree with Hamas and Hezbollah. I have said that I don't think they are motivated by malice and hatred.All that knee-jerking isn't good for you at your age.

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So we're agreed that their motivation is not malice and hatred.Let's remember also that we're not talking about "Muslim" terrorism but terrorism in general. Any motivation that applies to Muslims only doesn't answer the question, "What makes a terrorist a terrorist?"What made Timothy McVeigh a terrorist? So far, we've established that you were wrong about me. My track record is better than yours.

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I didn't "insist" anything. I pointed out the other viewpoint. Not bad. But you still have a couple of word-problems.What does "criminal" mean? Is it a "crime" to break laws imposed on me by somebody I perceive as an invader? Were the WWII resistance groups criminals, or terrorists?What does "aggression" mean? Does self-defense just mean wearing a Kevlar vest? Or does it mean shooting you before you shoot me? Or does it mean hunting down people who have "illegal" weapons because they might shoot me?

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I don't think that's quite fair. Killing the enemy is seldom the goal of any war - it's a means to an end.Sometimes, terrorism is just a way to draw attention to a problem - on the theory that any publicity is good publicity, bad attention is better than no attention at all. Would we know anything about the Palestinians if it wasn't for terrorism?Or, as in Iraq (and need I say Vietnam?), killing invading soldiers can sway public opinion back home against the war. How many victims is not as important as conveying the idea that anybody could be a victim. In Europe, the mass-transit systems are often targeted because everybody uses them. (Somebody living in Oklahoma would not be as terrorized by a subway attack as by a collapsing building.)The location itself can also have value to terrorists. The World Trade Center symbolized American economic imperialism, the Pentagon symbolizes American military imperialism....But trying to kill as many as possible is not the most effective way for a terrorist to achieve his aims.

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What constitutes "provocation"?If the U.S invades Canada, am I justified in shooting American soldiers? Am I justified in blowing up their barracks?Am I justified in crossing the border and shooting American soldiers on their own ground? Am I justified in blowing up their barracks even if there is a risk of killing civilians?

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I'm trying to stay away from specifics - especially Muslim/Israeli specifics - because you don't seem able to be objective about specifics.Forget about Muslims. Forget about "terrorists" taking over Canada.The example I gave was the U.S. invading Canada. Forget about why they hypothetically invaded Canada - they hypothetically just did.What am I, as a Canadian, justified in doing to oust the invaders from my country? Can I blow up buildings in the U.S.? Even if some civilians get killed?

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So you agree that "terrorism" or "non-terrorism" is relative to the history of the conflict.How far back in history can we go to find justifiable provocation?

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We're talking about terrorism and about what might provoke potential terrorists to commit acts of terror. Can you clarify how that applies to the present war in Lebanon?I'm assuming that you consider Hamas and Hezbollah to be the terrorists. I don't care how they may or may not have provoked the Israelis. I'm interested in what provoked them to resort to terrorism.

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It did - which is why I've been trying to pry you away from the situation in Lebanon. If we're going to understand terrorism and what makes it tick, we have to understand what motivates all terrorists, not just Muslim terrorists.Is unprovoked hatred the cause of all terrorism? In the same sense that I can "defend" Canada by attacking targets in the U.S.? In the same sense that I can "defend" myself by hunting down people who might attack me?Where is the line that I can not cross in defending myself?

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What I'm wondering is: How far can a national army go outside its own borders in "defending" its borders? At what point does a "defending" army become an invading army? And why can the invaded peoples not "defend" themselves from that army? How are Lebanese Hamas and Lebanese Hezbollah, fighting in Lebanon, the aggressors?

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That's what I've been trying to get at. At what point do Israel's actions cease to be defensive and begin to become offensive?Even if Hamas and Hezbollah did provoke Israel, at what point does Israel's reaction become aggression? Is there ever a point at which Israel's enemies are allowed to defend themselves without being branded as "terrorists"?

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