Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,480 Year: 3,737/9,624 Month: 608/974 Week: 221/276 Day: 61/34 Hour: 4/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What makes a terrorist a terrorist?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 13 of 300 (333904)
07-21-2006 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by ramoss
07-20-2006 8:44 PM


The innocent
If you purposely target the innocent, then it is terrorist.
I think the biggest question is 'Who is innocent?'
After all - it isn't George Bush that runs the USA its 'We the people', so anything that the US does (it could be argued) is the responsibility of its citizens. Who is truly innocent is in the eye of the beholder and thus so is who is a terrorist.
Unless, a terrorist is someone who targets people that they themselves consider innocent...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ramoss, posted 07-20-2006 8:44 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 07-21-2006 9:21 AM Modulous has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 105 of 300 (334820)
07-24-2006 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by berberry
07-24-2006 11:21 AM


Re: King David Hotel Bombing of 1946
Its amazing how the actions of Irgun are ignored by so many people. They claim to have warned the Hotel staff - but that doesn't mean it isn't terrorism. Still, no matter which way you cut it, bombing police stations (Haifa, 1947) and throwing grenades into cafes (Jerusalem, 1947) is terrorism. And of course there was the old Deir Yassin incident.
As you said:
one would really have to construct a very complicated definition of terrorisn in order to excude it entirely.
It would probably have to include something like 'if, in our opinion, the ends justified the means, it wasn't terrorism'.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by berberry, posted 07-24-2006 11:21 AM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by MangyTiger, posted 07-24-2006 12:31 PM Modulous has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 162 of 300 (336819)
07-31-2006 3:19 AM


Interesting, but not directly topic related
Horizon did a program which I recently saw about suicide bombing (revolving primarily around the London bombings) which was a psychological outline of terrorism.
Here is a brief.
It's no surprise that virtually all suicide attacks in modern times have relied on group psychology. From the squadrons of Kamikaze pilots in Japan to the highly trained suicide units of the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
But new evidence from Marc Sageman shows that extremist cells can form spontaneously, without any connections to established organisations. His analysis of al-Qaeda has shown that most people who join the organisation join when they are already radicalised, and crucially this radicalisation process has happened among a group of friends. He calls it his 'bunch of guys' theory

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 170 of 300 (337409)
08-02-2006 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
08-02-2006 12:54 PM


IDF falling for decades old publicity war
One thing that defines Muslim terrorists is the practice of deception, as in their complete staging of the Qana incident.
And the one thing that defines Western response has been falling for it
I see that Blair has finally grasped the reality of the situation and that force alone will never win the battle against extremism (he markedly didn't use the phrase war on terror)
It can only be won by showing that our values are stronger, better and more just, more fair than the alternative. Doing this, however, requires us to change dramatically the focus of our policy.
Unless we re-appraise our strategy, unless we revitalise the broader global agenda on poverty, climate change, trade, and in respect of the Middle East, bend every sinew of our will to making peace between Israel and Palestine, we will not win. And this is a battle we must win.
Terrorism is defined sketchily as we all know - but history has shown us that wherever there is civil unrest, the leaders that took the hardline only ended up increasing unrest/revolt. The leaders that took the understanding approach (but with a hard line), have had eventual success in squashing the problems.
Terrorism covers such a wide range of tactics - some terrorists are overt, however masquerading as civillians to increase civillian death toll as a recruitment tactic is increasingly used - that it makes it difficult to pin a definition down, even for subgroups such as Muslims. However, patterns do emerge.
Essentially, those who break the conventions of war to spread fear from one party or another. The intention of this fear is to provoke a reaction. That reaction may be political change or it may be a military response that kills civillians and helps increase sympathy from the community that the dead civillians belong to (increasing the ability for the terrorists to 'fade' away and hide weaponry).
New tactics are always being added to the list, and refinements are no doubt made.
Finally, I think it need to be stressed, that even though the tactic is an illegitimate method for political gain, that does not mean the root causes of the dissent are invalid; they should still be addressed to help stem the tide.
One thing that defines Muslim terrorists is the practice of deception...
Deception has been an itegral part of all warfare, legal and otherwise, so in the end - its not a useful property to help define things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 08-02-2006 12:54 PM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 183 of 300 (337751)
08-03-2006 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
08-03-2006 12:51 PM


To clear things up....the UN denounces terrorism/extremism
As long as the UN and world opinion treat the sides as morally equal there can't be a solution.
I'm not sure that they are regarded as morally equal, but they are held to the same moral/legal system and Israel is held to a higher standard in many ways because they are a member of the UN.
Just denounce their ideology, be very very clear about it...Or if the situation really were seen for what it is and the UN and world opinion in general did denounce them as the perpetrators, then the violence really might be forced to come to an end and they might have to accept a Palestinian state and live peaceably next to Israel. It isn't going to happen any other way.
The UN is very vocal in its attacks against extremism and has been since before September 2001.
quote:
Such extremism may threaten an entire society (Yemen), certain categories of individuals such as artists (Chad) or teachers (Egypt), or certain religious minorities (Mexico and Somalia). It is important to note that religious extremism acts as a cancer in any religious group, whatever the denomination, and that it affects the members of that group just as much as those of other religious groups.
...
Moreover, the fact is that religious extremism is not yet in retreat and seems set to continue to pose a threat, sometimes to entire regions. The major religions are no strangers to extremism and are sometimes exposed to these terrorist manifestations, which spare neither Governments nor the governed. It is vital to combat this religious extremism by taking action against both its causes and its effects and by getting States to define a minimum set of common rules of conduct and behaviour with regard to it.
And of course Annan himself:
quote:
" Terrorism is a global threat with global effects; ... its consequences affect every aspect of the United Nations agenda from development to peace to human rights and the rule of law. By its very nature, terrorism is an assault on the fundamental principles of law, order, human rights, and the peaceful settlement of disputes upon which the United Nations is established. The United Nations has an indispensable role to play in providing the legal and organizational framework within which the international campaign against terrorism can unfold".
Kofi Annan
UN Secretary-General
4 October 2002

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 08-03-2006 12:51 PM Faith has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024