Religious views of Magic the Gathering--PLEASE HELP!

I think it really has to do with where your heart is. And that goes for more than just games like this.I have never played magic but I often play video games with monsters, demons, etc in them. I am able to seperate myself from the game and enjoy it for its plot, intrigue, and mechanics. I defeat the game and put it away.I do know some people though to go waaay to far. They start idolizing the game/movie/book/etc which can then transfer to worship of the creators and even complete disillusionment. At some point during that process the whole thing should have been stopped.This applies in many walks of life. A good friend of mine will not touch alcohol. Not because he thinks it is wrong in any way but just because he knows that his personality cannot handle it.I was a pretty bad video game addict when I was growing up. I still play video games but I severly restrict myself to only 1 game at a time and in moderation. I know that if I go out and buy every video game I want that I will waste my life away rather then spend time with my family or do any of the other things I want in life.I think that should be the barometer. IF you look at a magic card and see a goblin picture with a bunch of stats and nothing more then I don't see that there is really any problem. If you see the same card and are totally intrigued by its implication in your world then maybe you might not be able to handle the connection between the game and reality.Listen to your heart. Ask God. Proceed accordingly.

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Just in case you didn't realize, Tal, it is the year 2005, not the Middle Ages.

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That remark gave the demons a good chortle.

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And your remark gave me a good chortle - so it's all good.

Well, if you are of the opinion that young people are unable to properly distinguish the difference between reality and fantasy, and are thus harmed by games that encourages escape from (some would call it denial, but that's rather strong) reality. I think this is more of a distaste of fantasy in general, and isn't based on a specific tradition of writing.Not all games are based on fantasy, though.

Sure, given THAT, no problem. I'm sure the demons find YOU amusing too.

Can you see those demons? do they tell you to do things?

Looks like Australia will need a couple of 'demon' fast bowlers in the coming Tests.

You raise an interesting question though one that needs clarification for me. What is "occult imagery"?I personally think the imagery is broader than that but I will address the question that I find there and that is why are dragons, witches, demons, vampires, on and on of such dramatic interest to us? Tolkien uses "occult imagery" I believe. When I was younger I read a lot of science fiction and fantasy. My first answer is that "occult imagery" if I understand what you mean by that is very useful for story telling. I don't believe that demons, dragons, goblins, sorcery, etc. exists yet I can enjoy images, stories, movies that feature them.Since I'm not a literalist I will say it's because of what they can signify or psychologically capture and figure. I don't believe that demons can explain Adolf Hitler, but in writing about Adolf Hitler using demonic metaphors can help communicate the evil and menace of the man. Stories require protagonists and antagonists and these are to some extent culturally determined. "occult imagery" is part of our cultural heritage.I'm wondering if Macbeth would has as much impact without the witches even though they have few lines. I've no problem with the Bible as literature or the occult as literature and some literature is better than others. I don't take it literally though. Taking it literally is what mystifies me.lfen

Okay back from the meeting and the agreement is what I thought would be fine all along. No Magic playing in the morning but they can bring their decks and they can play Magic with me in the afternoon.There is one little caveat that I'm a little suspicious about and that is something about a review if there is problems or complaints. I mean that is always true of anything so I'm wondering if there is perhaps a plot but I'm not going to worry at this time. As I hear it other people have had problems. And I think part of the problem is that the game is so complex that someone like myself who knows the game is needed to keep things in bounds. The only problems I've had are very typical kid problems and they been much more intense over playing four square of even chess than over playing Magic.Thanks for all the responses. It's been a helpful process for me. This is the first thread I've ever proposed to have had so much participation.lfen

Anything that suggests ways to communicate with spirits or invites such communication is occultic. A game is not just a story ABOUT these things, it apparently involves game decisions based on the personal USE of such things at points in the game. However, I agree the imagery is dramatic, and I don't know if there is anything in the game that actually encourages occultic indulgence, I'm merely interested in the popular emphasis on these things in games. It really doesn't seem necessary.

Necessary? No, not really. However, most people view them as just another theme, like space aliens, or life on other planets, or vikings, or super heroes. The typical sword and magic fantasy in MTG is a good theme because it contains both the familar and the impossible.Almost all people can enjoy something that exites their imagination. It's like with toys, really. Well, games ARE toys, just more elaborate ones.So what if people get into it? If the world is as filled with deamons as you seem to suggest, why would they bother about something that is essentially a game and that for almost all people just reinforce their ability to distinguish between what is real and what is just games. I think people who haven't found a way to act on their fantasies would be much more suspectible to actually doing so in a not so constructive way.

There really isn't. Players are interested in card interaction and mechanics which are very mathematical. So there is a card with a picture of a wild looking horse called Nightmare. The power and toughness are given as */* where the stars are the number of swamp lands one controls. The more swamps you have in play the more powerful and tough is the Nightmare. This has the implication that the card is best in a deck that only plays swamps that is a mono black deck.Players are analyzing cards like this and mechanics trying to come up with decks that will dominate. The game is like a very complex rock, paper, scissors. No deck can beat every other deck. Every deck has weaknesses and there are decks that exploit that weakness. Players are interested in all these possibilites which are really deck mechanics or mathmatical permutations. I sometime liken it to a complex kit to build virtual Rube Goldberg machines. The fun is building and tuning your deck against your friends decks. It's your cleverness vs. theirs which is sort of one model of game playing. Well it's not necessary. Necessary is something else. Still I think it's an interesting question about people. The answer might also provide insight as to why soap operas are so popular. To me it says something about human psychology and culture and I find it interesting though I have no taste for soap operas at all. Actually so called horror films bore me stiff also. But I loved LOTR.lfen

Perhaps that is all there is to it. But any kid who did get entangled with demons would be in deep trouble and that's what worries Christian parents.

It doesn't sound like it contains any real dangers of the sort that worry Christians, it's just that the imagery itself suggests those dangers.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-17-2005 10:37 PM

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That remark gave the demons a good chortle.

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Gee, maybe you should get your humors checked.I think you are showing symptoms of too much black bile in your system.

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The question is why all the occult imagery. I took a brief look at the game's website and saw just HOW oriented to the occult it is. Surely a good game of adventurous complexities for the geekery gang could do without the sorcery.

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Show me a SINGLE shred of verifiable evidence that there is such a thing as spells, sorcery, or anything at all like that which actually exists and I will denounce MTG immediately after.