Religious views of Magic the Gathering--PLEASE HELP!

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But any kid who did get entangled with demons would be in deep trouble and that's what worries Christian parents.

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But they could always take their possessed child to the friendly neighborhood exorcist who could bleed him or maybe perform a trefination to let the demon out, right?

Since according to you there is no such thing as angels, archangels, or any other heavenly host either, then a game based on these characters would be ok.

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Since according to you there is no such thing as angels, archangels, or any other heavenly host either, then a game based on these characters would be ok.

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I don't know if such things exist or not.There is no evidene to suggest they interact in a detetable fashion with the physical world as far as we have been able to tell.So yes, a game based upon these characters would be fine by me....except wouldn't you need demons, devils, and maybe fallen angels as antagonists in such a game?

But if it doesn't actually flirt with sorcery why would you denounce it just because sorcery is real?

There's a ton of evidence in witness reports in all religions and cultures. But I understand, you occupy the superior enlightened position of being able to pronounce all those other human beings deluded. Demons, devils and fallen angels are synonymous.

That sounds right. I think I understand that well enough to have it help me in any discussion.Thank you,
lfen

What's the process for getting entagled with demons? I've been trying everything but to no avail. Magic: The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, listening to rock music - nothing seems to work.

Sure you would need anatagonist such as demons etc. I don't have a problem with that and I'm sure there is a game out there somewhere like this.

It's possible to be entangled and not know it. However, the process is to believe in and consult oracles or seek supernatural powers. Fortunately you no doubt don't believe in them any more than you believe in God so you're safe. Sort of. I mean if they don't get you that way they'll get you some other way anyway, so in a sense this whole concern with occultic games is a bit academic.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-18-2005 01:52 PM

Woot! Atheism for the win! What the hell is taking so long, then?

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But if it doesn't actually flirt with sorcery why would you denounce it just because sorcery is real?

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The reason it "doesn't flirt with sorcery" is because there's no such thing as sorcery.It's just make-believe based upon old legends and mythology.

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There's a ton of evidence in witness reports in all religions and cultures.

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There's a ton of witness reports of magical or unusual creatures like Nessie, Big Foot, mermaids, space aliens, monkey men, succubi, gods walking among humans, vampires, werewolves, shapechangers, tenuki, woodland spirits, etc. in all cultures, too.Does that mean they all exist, even though there is no verifiable, reliable evidence that they do?If I told you that I saw Krishna, or Big Foot, or a vampire, would you just unquestioningly believe me, or would you require a bit more evidence than just my say so?

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But I understand, you occupy the superior enlightened position of being able to pronounce all those other human beings deluded.

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...or mistaken, or uneducated, or overly superstitious, most likely.Don't you hold the position that you yourself occupy the "superior enlightened position of being able to pronounce all...other human beings deluded" when it comes to other religions, and even interpretations of Christianity that is different from yours?Like I said in the post you are replying to: Do you have such evidence?If so, then let's put it to the test and see if it holds up.

Uh huh, but you've lost track of the sequence here. You were the one who raised the hypothetical that if sorcery WERE real then you'd condemn the game, and I was answering that by saying that even if it were real, if the game doesn't promote it in any way, why condemn it.

Right, sorry.Well if sorcery was real, then we could see if the game actually did promote it.Since we have no idea what sorcery would be like, what effect it would have, what would be required to practice it (does it require inborn talent or can one study to do magic?), we really don't know if the game would be dangerous or not.

Yes, and though some are no doubt overimagination, they are all part of the evidence that there is a normally-unseen world that in my opinion nobody has a right to dismiss as a delusion simply because it's the prejudice these days that such things don't exist. It's all witness evidence and some is better than others and whether it's reliable or not is a very complex judgment call that takes quite a bit of thought. Certainly I'd need more evidence but I wouldn't expect there to be evidence beyond your own experience. I'd need to interview you to determine if I believed you or not, though in any case I'm not likely to believe that the specifics of an apparition are true (Krishna, Mary, etc), as I believe demons manifest in various forms and rarely appear as themselves. And if you with your prejudices said such a thing in a serious way -- not at EvC where I'd know it was a put-on -- I might be inclined to take it seriously, but I wouldn't believe or disbelieve it without knowing quite a bit about it. Whatever, they're wrong, you're right, about their own personal experiences. Not about anybody's personal experiences. I tend to believe it's presumptuous and rude to question what people say about their personal experience without a GREAT deal of reason to doubt it, but belief systems are something else. That involves a completely objective judgment based on the doctrinal claims of the respective belief systems. Like I said in response, the evidence is witness evidence. That kind of evidence requires a different kind of testing than physical evidence does. It involves judgment of many clues to credibility or the lack of it. Not all questions can be tested in a science laboratory.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-18-2005 03:39 PM