Religious views of Magic the Gathering--PLEASE HELP!

What evidence, specifically?Yes, that's right. I'm asking you how many specific, attributed first-person accounts you can provide to substantiate the existence of the supernatural, or whatever.

What is? Name the witnesses.If you don't know the witnesses, then how do you know the evidence is there? If all you have is "I know a guy who knows a guy who saw it", what evidence do you really have?

Faith, I am curious. From your point of view, is it possible that some or all of the people executed in Salem Massachusetts in 1692 during the Salem Witch Trials were indeed witches? And if so, were their executions warranted?I am not asking whether or not you believe that they were witches, just if it is possible that they were, from your POV.{edited to correct grammar}This message has been edited by Michael, 06-18-2005 06:58 PM

You could dig up all the reports of all the experiences of such phenomena over all the millennia in all cultures as well as I could. You know it exists. Then you will have the witness evidence I'm talking about for the study you appear to be interested in conducting. If you want to specify specific named witnesses you are free to do that with your own study, but I didn't specify such. Witness evidence as I use the term is testimony in whatever form it is found. Good luck.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-18-2005 07:13 PM

I don't know.

If you don't think there are such reports I wonder where you've been. Schraf admits there are such reports in her Message 87 where she said:

I asked you because I tried, and what I got were:1) People who saw funny things while under the influence of drugs, so we can throw those right out;
2) People who saw funny things while in bed, sleeping, so we can throw those right out because they're just dreams;
3) People who saw funny things during bad lighting, fog, or other poor vision conditionsThe only reports I've ever seen of anyone who saw something funny during circumstances where we could reasonably conclude they saw what they saw were reports of a highly suspect nature; in other words, "I know a guy who knows a guy who saw something."That's all there is. That's all you have. Why would a reasonable person consider any of that evidence? Especially when, under any kind of controlled situation or test, absolutely none of those reports withstand any kind of scrutiny?There's no evidence for the supernatural, Faith. You keep saying that there's all this witness evidence, but there isn't. There plainly isn't. Anyone who thinks there is is an idiot, it's just that simple. There's just some drunk people, some sleepy people, some people with sun in their eyes, and some people who like to tell stories that can't be checked up on.

Look farther.

I did.

If you really did do such extensive research, please enlighten us. At least supply us your bibliography?This message has been edited by Faith, 06-18-2005 08:08 PM

My apologies Faith--I had intended to accept your reply without response, but I had also expected your reply to be more substantive than it was. I know you are reponding to others on this thread, but I ask you to bear with me for a bit if you will. Also, I realize that this isn't exactly on topic, but I am quite curious.My understanding is that you believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Exodus 22:18 (KJB) states: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." This seems to imply to me that witches do exist, according to that version of the bible. I would then assume that you believe that witches exist. What, then, is special about the Salem witches that you are unsure whether they could possibly have been actual witches? Or do I have an assumption that is invalid?

I'm not all that familiar with the particulars of the Salem story. I have the impression that many good minds concluded that it was all concocted and the charges were false, so you are really asking me if I think it possible they were wrong and I have no way of having an opinion about that without studying the incident.Some laws in the Old Testament pertain to their situation as a theocracy. Christianity is not a theocracy and can't be, but New England tried, and I suppose I might argue that if they had a law against witchcraft then prosecuting a TRUE witch by that law would of course be warranted.Yes, I believe witchcraft is real, and it has been practiced in all human groups in connection with their religions. The pre-Christian tribes of Europe certainly practiced witchcraft. Historically, Christianity converts witches, it doesn't kill them. There are missionary reports of local shamans (witches) being converted today.

For the record that game already exists. It is called Magic the Gathering. Evidence here: Serra AngelOne of the better white creatures by the way.

Okay. Thank you Faith.

You first. You are, after all, the one that brought up this supposed "evidence" in the first place, remember?