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Author Topic:   George Bush protecting your civil liberties by breaking them
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2519 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 20 of 220 (270544)
12-18-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
12-18-2005 12:05 AM


War or No, Bush has too much power
Right or wrong, if we are considered in a time of war, and under threat, Bush's actions are entirely consistent with other president's in our nation's history.
Not true.
First of all, we aren't in a war. The Congress did not declare war. We have troops in Iraq, but the US Citizens that the Bush Admin was secretly and illegally monitoring were not involved with Iraq.
They refuse to release a list of who the 500+ people were. There is no oversight. It's possible (I would argue highly likely) that John Kerry was one of the people they spied on. After all, there's no one to stop them.
Additionally, under what other President has the executive branch had the ability to strip a US Citizen of not just their rights, but they citizenship? With the Patriot Act, not just Bush, but the Attorney General has the right to strip you, Randman, of your US citizenship - even though you are not a dual-citizen (I assume)
That's brand new power. And it's completely unchecked. Just like the imprisonments, the torture, the kidnapping of foreign citizens.
This whole "We are at war" because the President says we are at war is circular.
"I need more power because we are at war, so don't question my powers because we are at war. We are at war because I say we are at war. I have the power to say we are war because I gave myself the power because we are at war."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by randman, posted 12-18-2005 12:05 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by randman, posted 12-19-2005 12:41 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2519 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 21 of 220 (270547)
12-18-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
12-18-2005 3:14 PM


Re: time of war
There is a distinct difference between the NSA doing it and the President signing an order saying that the NSA can do it.
Rape is illegal. Rape happens. But if the President signed a Presidential order saying Rape is okay, that's a problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 12-18-2005 3:14 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by randman, posted 12-19-2005 12:40 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2519 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 56 of 220 (270935)
12-19-2005 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by randman
12-19-2005 12:41 PM


Re: War or No, Bush has too much power
Clinton did not try to push through the Patriot Act, and if he did, the Republicans stopped him because they are for smaller Government when the other guy is in charge

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by randman, posted 12-19-2005 12:41 PM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by arachnophilia, posted 12-19-2005 11:50 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
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