Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

Monk writes me:

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I think we agree here...

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Yes, for the most part apparently we do.

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It should be the same in the real world as it is on this forum. No Ad Hominems, attack the argument only.

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If not in ordinary practice then at least to those who've suffered the loss of a loved one. I'm not saying Sheehan should be free to make wild and reckless charges against anyone she wants without anyone saying a contrary word, but surely you can respond vigorously to what she says without attacking her character or questioning her grief.

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...I do have a right to judge her in regards to the comments she makes...

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Almost. You have the right to judge the comments themselves.

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

Ironically enough, even Xian fundies.Guess who uses the death of someone to push their political agendas? If Sheehan is pissing on her son's grave, just think of the urinal you guys are making out of the cross. Oh by the way, you guys also used Terri Schiavo and many thousands of dead Americans on 9/11, as well as many more thousands of dead Iraqis.Located within the OP you are using raped and murdered people for your political agenda. And look at your freakin' avatar Tal.As much as I disagree with Sheehan's message (we really do have to stay in Iraq at this point), she is not a media whore nor using her son to simply play politics. I wouldn't call you one either, but you are closer to that than she is.I mean really... look at your avatar.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Agreed. Although it has been shown clearly that she is lying to better support her more activist persona since her meeting with Bush. Do your really believe Bush was oogling her daughter right in front of her along with other grieving mothers? I don't. That is a character issue and she is rightly criticized for it.At some point she will stop grieving her son and become simply one of many far left political activists. Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Real mature of you. Actually he didn't. Mostly just the scribes and Pharisees ad the money changers who were defiling the temple. He was certainly never offensive just to be offensive, which is how I see your behavior. And by the way, I am not gay. One doesn't have to be gay to be offended by homophobic rhetoric.This message has been edited by deerbreh, 08-23-2005 01:20 PM

It would be nice if she weren't such a loose cannon. She'd be far more effective if she were more skilled in what she says and does. But that's all the more reason to suspect that she is seriously grieving.And even as she is, she's pretty damned effective, mostly because of the far right's reaction to her.On the lying issue, I'm not so sure. When I first heard that charge it turned out to be a mined quote. There may be something else that's come up since; if so I have no problem with calling her on it, but only in context of challenging her, not judging her.

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

It's the media's reaction to her that the right is having a reaction to.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Hey, I didn't make up the gay-gene zapper. That was posted by an evolutionist as genetic evidence for homosexuality. No, he was offensive because he believed in what was right and stuck to that even though it wasn't popular and sometimes ran against tradition. Exposing someone's sin is offensive to that person most of the time.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Unlike when Bush and Co patently milk the death of 1000s of americans to push their agenda, including Bush's re-election, using media hype. Nice hypocrisy.By the way, is that avatar you, God, an eagle, or Bush, pissing on all those people's graves?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Yes, she is effective and yes the right is reacting to her. It's sort of difficult to avoid a reaction with her kind of media exposure. Intentional or not, she is the sort of effective tool for use against Bush that the left hasn't had in awhile. I don't begrudge the left for acquiring such an effective political wedge with Sheehan. The right would most assuredly do the same.And her continued rhetoric and Bush's falling poll numbers may indeed have an effect. I just hope the effect doesn't result in a premature withdrawal from Iraq.

Which is why the right refuses to admit to the grievous errors commited by Bush and co, right? Labeling anyone who disagrees with their policies, even those who are proven right and/or conservative, as lying radical leftists, right?By the way did you see the CNN documentary called "Dead Wrong" where administration officials, and other intel analysts admit there were no WMDs and detail how the whole thing was botched... even Bush's handpicked conservative WMD finder?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Just to let you know, I agree. Whatever effect she has, that would actually be worse.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Link to the documentary.Were their WMD in Iraq? Yes. Are they there now? No. The question is where did they go?And, again, if Bush was wrong, so was everyone else.Also, again, there was more reasons than WMD for going into Iraq.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

I asked if you saw it, I wasn't presenting evidence. I watched it on the TV and am not sure if they have it online. I guess I can check, but then you can as well. Its CNN.com. See you keep missing the point. Were there WMDs in Iraq? Yes (at some point in time there certainly were). Are they there now? No. WERE THEY THERE WHEN THE US ACCUSED THEM OF HAVING THEM? NO!There may be a question of where they went, but the war was not based on where the went but if they had them. They didn't. No, not everyone believed Bush. Not everyone believed what he said. Even the CIA had been trying to get him to drop the Nuke claim (its in the Senate Report), and only the CIA (against other intel services, most notably the State Departments intel) pushed the claims heard in Powell's speech.The concept that everyone agreed on intel is patently bogus, yet appears to grow each time you make it. I wasn't debating Iraq, I was asking you if you saw the rather well produced documentary where even conservatives within the administration admit all the accusations leveled against Iraq turned out to be bogus and detailed how the CIA and the administration got it so wrong.I am just wondering what it will take for you to admit that the game is over on that issue.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I think Sheehan's effect might have been considerably greater had her emmergence occured 2-3 months before next year's mid term elections. As it is, it will be difficult to keep this story in the spotlight for that long.I suppose her message really doesn't have to stay in the spotlight. She could and probably will, re-emmerge next year after fading in the public interest this year. In fact, if Dems were smart they would coach her to tone down the rhetoric and her profile in the short run, then make another splash next year. That way, the public will not grow tired of the incessant drum beat.

What is your evidence for this assertion? Irrelevant. Bush was CIC with access to more intelligence than anyone else, including intelligence questioning the conventional wisdom of WMD in Iraq. He was responsible, he is accountable. Bush should have been asking the CIA, "How do you know this is true? What are the chances you are wrong?" I think he didn't ask because he didn't want to know. He wanted to uwe WMD as a reason for war, whether he had good evidence for it or not. Remember the "yellow cake", "aluminum centrifuge tubes", "reconstituted nuclear weapons program","drone capable of reaching the United States", "mobile biological labs", etc., etc.? Such as? The main reason given was WMD. Another reason given was Iraq connection to 9-11 and Al Quaeda. There is zero credible evidence for that one either (Chalabi is not credible). I don't remember any other reasons being given until the WMDs failed to show up. Then Bush started talking about getting rid of dictators and spreading democracy. That is what I remember. Can you honestly say it was otherwise?