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Author Topic:   Gay marraige and the end of the world
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 151 of 195 (279792)
01-18-2006 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by riVeRraT
01-17-2006 5:06 PM


Re: History
My two straight parents screwed me up so I had to spend years and years trying to fix myself.
quote:
Ever consider thats why you don't want to have kids?
Sure, I've considered it.
Have you considered that the reason you have so many kids is because you feel guilty over the abortion of your pregnant girlfriend?
But you know exactly why I don't want to have kids. It's because I am a selfish, career-minded jerk who doesn't understand that the only reason to get married is to breed a bunch of babies.
You've got me all figured out, dude.
You think the reason I am insulted is because I have a "personal problem", and not because you said to my face that you don't think my marriage should even be called a marriage because I have no children?
That is truly mind boggling.
quote:
Whats the problem?You can't control my mind,
Would that I could, rat.
Would that I could.
quote:
I can think what I want. Why get all fusterd about it? What's the big deal? I am not impossing that you change or that you should consider yourself not married.
I just thought you would want to know how your attitudes affect other people. You insulted me, rat. If you don't care that you did that, then I'll just add that to my list of things to remember about you.
quote:
Lighted up, for real.
No.
You cannot just tell me to "lighten up" when you have gotten this personal with me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by riVeRraT, posted 01-17-2006 5:06 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2006 10:31 PM nator has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 152 of 195 (279817)
01-18-2006 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by berberry
01-17-2006 4:30 PM


Re: One more important point
This one ends in a different type of tragedy, one which shows why this fight over gay marriage is so important.
As tragic as it is, that does not add up to why gay marriage is important. If you don't think this kind of stuff happens in families where marriages and legal wills are in place, you need to do more research.
Furthermore this issue did not involve just marriage but common-law marriage. This is a greater testament to how greedy and lawsuit happy people are and why people have to be very careful of what they put in place legally.
Its unbelievable that the guy whose name everything was in did not protect his partner (business or otherwise), by having his partner's name as co-owner, or get a freaking witness signature on the will! To pass the buck onto society for that is a bit over the top.
If they'd had a marriage license shy a witness signature, like they had left the will, the greedy bastard relatives could have still tried (and perhaps won) the same thing.
This message has been edited by holmes, 01-18-2006 07:45 AM

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by berberry, posted 01-17-2006 4:30 PM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by ramoss, posted 01-19-2006 10:25 AM Silent H has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 153 of 195 (279946)
01-18-2006 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by nator
01-18-2006 12:00 AM


Re: History
Have you considered that the reason you have so many kids is because you feel guilty over the abortion of your pregnant girlfriend?
No. I have always wanted kids, just like brenna was always gay.,
But you know exactly why I don't want to have kids. It's because I am a selfish, career-minded jerk who doesn't understand that the only reason to get married is to breed a bunch of babies.
You've got me all figured out, dude.
dude?
I never said you were career-minded. I have no clue what you do for a living, or do I have a clue why you don't want kids.
Instead of resulting to name calling,,,again,,,, why don't you just explain yourself rationally?
If you can't, then maybe you shouldn't even be bothering with me. I find your attitude pretty shitty, and I see a break down in the way you behave. I am disappointed, I am starting to lose respect. But I don't hold grudges. So your free, as am I.
Would that I could, rat.
Would that I could.
Sounds like a bugs bunny cartoon, lol.
I just thought you would want to know how your attitudes affect other people. You insulted me, rat. If you don't care that you did that, then I'll just add that to my list of things to remember about you.
Of course I care, haven't you been paying attention. I am trying to better myself, and fix any inequities I might have.
But when people start responding like you do, then you step back and say what is the sense?
YOu will teach me nothing with sarcasm and insults.
I still do not see why you have to get insulted, sounds like your getting defensive from my end, oh well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by nator, posted 01-18-2006 12:00 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by arachnophilia, posted 01-18-2006 10:40 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 156 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-18-2006 10:50 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 161 by nator, posted 01-20-2006 11:16 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 154 of 195 (279947)
01-18-2006 10:33 PM


vaca
Going on vaca, be back next week, that will give me some time to think about everything.

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 155 of 195 (279950)
01-18-2006 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
01-18-2006 10:31 PM


Re: History
No. I have always wanted kids, just like brenna was always gay.,
i promise you, she is not gay. she is currently dating a man -- in fact, everyone she's ever dated is a man. at the very most she is bisexual, but i suspect her "interest" in women is mostly playful.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2006 10:31 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 156 of 195 (279951)
01-18-2006 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
01-18-2006 10:31 PM


off topic
No. I have always wanted kids, just like brenna was always gay.,
i'm not gay. I'M A GIRL.
and i'm quite offended that you have decided to start ignoring me since i'm gay and thus not worthy of listening to. or something.
I find your attitude pretty shitty, and I see a break down in the way you behave. I am disappointed, I am starting to lose respect.
and i in you.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 01-18-2006 10:51 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2006 10:31 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Silent H, posted 01-19-2006 4:55 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2006 7:59 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 157 of 195 (279965)
01-19-2006 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by macaroniandcheese
01-18-2006 10:50 PM


Re: off topic
you have decided to start ignoring me since i'm gay and thus not worthy of listening to. or something.
Well to be honest if he was just paying attention to you because you were straight and female, wouldn't that make him sexist?
In any case, you have my attention... more pics please.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-18-2006 10:50 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
AdminIRH
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 195 (279968)
01-19-2006 6:27 AM


OFF TOPIC
Brenna, no more pics please. Though that is a very nice one, very artistic I must say.
Let's keep it civil too please - berberry has set a fine example so far in this thread for quality posting, I'm sure everyone here can do the same.
{edited into admin mode}
This message has been edited by AdminIRH, 01-19-2006 11:28 AM

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 613 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 159 of 195 (279984)
01-19-2006 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Silent H
01-18-2006 7:44 AM


Re: One more important point
Actually, it does. THe problem is that often legal wills are overruled, in the favor of the blood relatives, rather than the partner.
There is also the cases where someone could not visit his/her partner in the hospital, or help make medical decisions.
There there are pensions, and survivor benefits, and all sorts of things.. and messes with the children they were raising togather.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Silent H, posted 01-18-2006 7:44 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Silent H, posted 01-19-2006 11:20 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 160 of 195 (279997)
01-19-2006 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by ramoss
01-19-2006 10:25 AM


Re: One more important point
Actually, it does.
No really, it doesn't. The point I was making is that that specific situation would not likely have been effected by a marriage license, especially if they had pursued it in the half-ass manner that they had done everything else.
If this was a case where they had done everything as they should have, and then greedy people were able to break it down because they weren't married, then that would be an argument for marriage.
That's not what happened here at all. They did not do some of the simplest and most obvious things, like say put business and other licenses in both names. That alone would have prevented what occurred and did not require marriage at all, or even a will... its just straight business. And if the one guy who had everything in his name (for whatever reason that was thought smart) has simply made his will properly, this would also have likely gone differently.
You are right some blood relatives can break wills, then again some wills can break blood relatives. This happens even in hetero marriages. It would have gone to court at least on equal grounds rather than throwing the one partner to the dogs.
This was a tragic example of negligence on one hand, and greed on the other. I feel very sorry for the guy, and I even think he should have been able to get married if he had wanted to, but this tragedy did not outline the reason why.
There is also the cases where someone could not visit his/her partner in the hospital, or help make medical decisions.
Was any of that in the article? No. Thus you cannot bring these cases up to say that the article suggests why gay marriage is important.
Look I'm not saying I am against gay marriage or there are no reasons, I'm just saying that the tragic story here was of something totally different, and did not create an argument for gay marriage.
If anything in that story could have been used to argue for why gay marriage shouldn't be opposed, and supported, its the story of their wonderful life together... not the tragedy faced by one partner after the death of the other because they were negligent in filling out forms.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by ramoss, posted 01-19-2006 10:25 AM ramoss has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 161 of 195 (280432)
01-20-2006 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
01-18-2006 10:31 PM


Re: History
Have you considered that the reason you have so many kids is because you feel guilty over the abortion of your pregnant girlfriend?
quote:
No. I have always wanted kids, just like brenna was always gay.
OK, so does that mean that you haven't always wanted kids?
...because Brenna isn't gay.
And it still doesn't answer my specific question, which was "Have you considered that the reason you have so many kids is because you feel guilty over the abortion of your pregnant girlfriend?"
So many kids, is the important part of the question here.
But you know exactly why I don't want to have kids. It's because I am a selfish, career-minded jerk who doesn't understand that the only reason to get married is to breed a bunch of babies.
You've got me all figured out, dude.
quote:
I never said you were career-minded. I have no clue what you do for a living, or do I have a clue why you don't want kids.
1) The following is how you have characterized childless by choice marriages every time you have described them:
In Message #59, you wrote:
The fact is that your marriage IS different from one who chooses to have children. You do not wish to care for children, only yourselves.
...in which you insult me by saying that I am too selfish to care for children.
Then, in Message #76
Thinking that your marriage which doesn't choose to rear kids, is somehow on the same level as mine.
...which I take as you believe your marriage is at a "higher level" or "better" somehow, than mine, presumably because you have children.
That is also insulting.
And then you repeated your insult again in Message #110, when you wrote,
"But ever here the expression, lets get married and have kids? Lets just leave out the kids part, because we don't want any, we are too busy with ourselves, and our careers.
So, YOUR OWN STATEMENTS is where I got the idea that you believe I am too selfish and too career-minded and that's why I don't have any children.
Be more careful about what you write. Keep track of what you write.
2) I have explained exactly why I currently choose to not raise or have children in Message #103 in this thread, which I notice that you did not reply to. Did you read that post?
quote:
Instead of resulting to name calling,,,again,,,, why don't you just explain yourself rationally?
Why don't you keep track of what you are writing? Why do I have to constantly quote your own words back to you? Why can you not see that when you make snide comments about why you think some married people choose to not have kids, it's just like you are saying it to me?
Is this such a difficult concept to understand?
quote:
I still do not see why you have to get insulted, sounds like your getting defensive from my end, oh well.
Let's pretend that people in the US commonly get tattoos of patriotic symbols put all over themselves in prominent locations. Let's pretend that this has always been a very common custom here for as long as anyone can remember.
Let's pretend that you have decided, for various reasons, to not get any patriotic tattoos at all. It is a minor trend for people to not get them, but most people get at least one or two. It is common for people to ask others if they have any, and to ask when they plan to get their first one. Children generally grow up expecting to get patriotic tattoos.
How would you feel if people said that they didn't think you should be considered a true citizen of the US because you weren't patriotically tattooed, or that people with patriotic tattoos should obviously be given a special protected status that untattooed people shouldn't receive?
What if they called you "selfish" and "unamerican" and "not at the same level of citizenship as them" because, according to them, you clearly wanted to spend your time and money on yourself and your carreer instead of putting it into the many expensive, permanent tattoos that almost everyone else gets and have wanted since they were small?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-20-2006 11:28 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 01-18-2006 10:31 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2006 7:57 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 162 of 195 (281443)
01-25-2006 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by nator
01-20-2006 11:16 PM


Re: History
quote:Instead of resulting to name calling,,,again,,,, why don't you just explain yourself rationally?
Why don't you keep track of what you are writing? Why do I have to constantly quote your own words back to you? Why can you not see that when you make snide comments about why you think some married people choose to not have kids, it's just like you are saying it to me?
WEll you sure made up a whole lot of stuff there, and managed to put a multitude of words in my mouth for me. Thanks.
It's kind of hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone so irrational.
I agree with the admin, beberry is the only one in this thread who has kept their cool, and managed to explain themselves rationally.
All I feel is attacks from you, and that stems from your defensiveness towards me.
You choose not to have kids, that is the fact, stop adding stuff to it it like, my marriage is better than your or whatever.
Now, state exactly why you chose not to have kids.
Did you ever think you chose not to have kids because of the way you consider your parewnts raised you?
*warining* the above statement is not an insult, all comments from here on out, are not insults, do not take them that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by nator, posted 01-20-2006 11:16 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by AdminIRH, posted 01-25-2006 8:22 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 163 of 195 (281445)
01-25-2006 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by macaroniandcheese
01-18-2006 10:50 PM


Re: off topic
and i'm quite offended that you have decided to start ignoring me since i'm gay and thus not worthy of listening to. or something.
I am not ignoring you, I have been very busy with my work. I will answer all you posts. I think you for replying and getting involved.
I do like you for your mind.
I do not actually care if people are gay or not. If someone is gay, does not dictate how I treat tham, I thought I made that clear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-18-2006 10:50 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-25-2006 10:17 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
AdminIRH
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 195 (281454)
01-25-2006 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by riVeRraT
01-25-2006 7:57 AM


OFF TOPIC
Guys, this topic is about gay marraige.
It is NOT about why schrafinator chose not to have kids or why riverrat chose to have many.
At the moment it is degenerating into a "did too! did not!" exchange between schraf and RR over whether RR insulted schraf's marraige - and if it continues like this with no further posts on topic I will close the thread, as the debate is obviously over.
Riverrat, schraf said why she didn't want kids. She stated very specifically:
quote:
The idea is that if I do not bring even more mouths into the world to be overfed by the embarassing amount of food we consume in this country, there will be that much more food, water, clean air, etc., for some other people.
quote:
It is also true that there are some funky genetics in both my and zhimbo's side of the family and while no doctor has ever told us that we should definitely not have kids, it was definitely a factor in the choice to remain childless.
quote:
If I were to decide to bring another life into this world, it would be because I really wanted to do it. While both Zhimbo and I enjoy kids, neither one of us have had the burning desire to have and raise a child ourselves.
Stop asking her to repeat herself. You have your answer.
Schraf, if you want to discuss the perceived insult to your marraige then take it to a new thread. All further posts here should have some relevence to the topic (and I would expect you to explain how if it's not completely clear).
Please take note.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2006 7:57 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-25-2006 10:15 AM AdminIRH has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 165 of 195 (281480)
01-25-2006 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by AdminIRH
01-25-2006 8:22 AM


Re: OFF TOPIC
could you at least wait for rr to figure out that i'm a chick before you close it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by AdminIRH, posted 01-25-2006 8:22 AM AdminIRH has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by AdminIRH, posted 01-25-2006 11:27 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
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