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Author
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Topic: Gay marraige and the end of the world
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 166 of 195 (281481)
01-25-2006 10:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 163 by riVeRraT
01-25-2006 7:59 AM
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Re: off topic
I will answer all you posts. i sure hope you read them all. thank you for your courtesy and i apologize -in advance of your reading all of my posts- for having a bit of fun at your expense. i hope you understand.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2006 7:59 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 168 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:23 AM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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AdminIRH
Inactive Member
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Re: OFF TOPIC
You think your picture didn't convince him? Oh alright, here: Riverrat, that's a girl over there *points at Brennakimi* Note the presense of boobs and general curviness normally associated with human females. Now no more off topic posts.
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: off topic
i sure hope you read them all. thank you for your courtesy and i apologize -in advance of your reading all of my posts- for having a bit of fun at your expense. i hope you understand. Of course I am reading them all. I just want to give time to seriously think about these things. I want to act, instead of react to what is being said to me. I am at a real life cross road here, and I am trying to logically figure it all out. If I am going to be against gay marriage or not, then I better have a clear logical reason to think one way or another. Like I said before, I do not care if you are a chick, gay, straight or whatever. Makes no difference to me, to have these conversations. I will not talk to people differently, or treat them differently, just because they don't think the same way as me. I just appreciate being able to have htese conversations with all of you, even the angry schraf. To give you an update on where my thought process is: I have been approaching people who are against homosexuality, and taking the gay side of the arguement, and asking them to explain why its wrong. The answers I have been recieving are shallow, and only one or 2 could really explain why. Most of them are using religous reasons to reason their thoughts. Then I ask, should we be forcing our religous beliefs on those who don't believe? #1, from a non-religous point of view. The only logical reason I can come up with for being against gay marriage, and to think that being gay is in some sort of way wrong, is that, we all are born of a mother and a father. To be gay is in some way to go against that, and is some how disrespectful to the very process that brought us into existance, and kept us here on this earth for so many years. I wish I could put that into better words. #2 Being born gay is not a proven thing yet. This would greatly affect how I feel about this. Mind you, I sit on the fence about whether people are born gay or not. Sometimes, you can just look at a person and say, "your gay". But that is judging, so I refrain from that. You can also take on a gay appearance, and anyone could act metaphorically gay or straight, and we would never really know the difference from outward appearances. Another good reason not to judge people. Some people are just "flames", and I do not think I will ever understand that. #3 People have asked me, did I choose to be straight. I say yes. Because I was raised to think that being gay is ok. My first sexual encounter was almost a gay one, and I choose not to have it. My choice may have been based on a desire, but I also choose not to smoke pot even though I desire to. I also choose to be monogomous and not be with multiple partners, even though there may be an inward desire to do so. #4 The animal kingdom, I have been told that there are animnals who are gay. They would even mate for life. I have yet to see any links for this, but it makes no difference, because if we start basing our society on what goes on in the animal kingdom, we are in for trouble, so scratch that idea. #5 I do believe that some people are gay, not by choice, but by things that may have happened to them beyond their control. I know this as fact. I have witnessed it first hand, and it has been admitted to me by homosexual people. We are the sum of our experiences. Now from a religous stand point, there is no way you could ever say that Jesus thinks its ok. Even though people have tried in here, I will never be convinced that Jesus thinks its ok. It's one man, one woman.
quote:
Matthew 19
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
That amoung other verses makes it pretty clear to me, how God made us to be. People have tried to use the word love as a reason to allow same sex couples marry. So I started a thread, what is love. There are few responses. I heard one definition in here of love being nothing more than an extention of our survival instincts in action. A natural chemical reaction in the brain so that we may continue to exist. If that is true, then how can a man love a man? Given the option, I have never heard someone say that they would wish to have two male parents, or two female parents over one male, and one female. We all have a natural desire to have our biological parents raise us, in a peaceful and loving manor. Just because this is not the norm, doen't make gay marriage right. A=C B=C but B can't =C or whatever. Now the other thing that I am dealing with is that I just don't feel that it is right in my heart. I will never look at 2 guys kissing, and say "awwww how cute!". Even 2 woman kissing wouldn't sexually attract me unless I thought I could be in the middle somehow. But I also made it clear that what my flesh desires sexually is not what I think should be what marriage is based on. So why do I feel this way, if I was raised to think that homosexuality is normal? I do not have an answer, and I am truely searching for one.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 194 by AdminIRH, posted 02-04-2006 11:26 AM | | riVeRraT has not replied | | | Message 195 by nwr, posted 02-04-2006 11:44 AM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: i hope you're not serious rr
many of the founding documents of the nation (ie: the constitution, as opposed to the declaration of independence) explicitly state that government should stay out of religion, as do many founding fathers. even the ones that went to church. Thats all well and good. They did that for a specific reason, and that was to make sure that religous leaders would not control our government. It does not mean that our own personal moral beliefs, no matter where they come from should or should not have a way into or legal system. We have a right to believe whatever we want, and we can base our morals on it.
a monkey is not a human being. it cannot sign a marriage licence, or express in human language its consent. So people who cannot speak or write, should not marry? I know that last statement was rediculus, but it expresses some of the logic around here.
we can't see jesus NOT having compassion, and NOT helping those in need. I am trying to leave Jesus out of this one, and explain to myself my own personal feelings, and why I feel this way. I think in the great debate we will go into more detail about what Jesus would have us do.
when brennakimi refers to her boyfriend, it's because she is indeed straight and is dating a member of the opposite sex. i will vouch for the fact that she really is female, and i'm pretty certain she was born that way. Makes no difference to me, she is sticking up for gay marriage, and we are just discussing it.
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 170 of 195 (281702)
01-26-2006 8:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 142 by Trixie
01-17-2006 4:56 PM
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Re: Does this help?
I think God has answered you. He's led you to start questioning your position. I've always believed that God doesn't respond directly to us, but enables us to deal with the problems we face, rather than removing the problems for us. Thank you for your words.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 142 by Trixie, posted 01-17-2006 4:56 PM | | Trixie has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 171 of 195 (281703)
01-26-2006 8:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 140 by berberry
01-17-2006 4:15 PM
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Re: History
Let me put it this way: the more Christians like you do come to accept it the more likely it is that my faith in God might be restored. Can you read a few of my last posts? I have been seriously thinking about all that you said to me. About this quote. Do you think that it is fair that you place that responsibility on me? In other words you are telling me, that if I support same sex marriage, more people will come to know the Lord? I do not see how I could possibly think that way, because I am 99.99% sure that God is against it. What I am trying to define, is why I am against it in my heart, and do I have a right (or logical reason other than God) to force my moral beliefs (no matter where they come from) on the gay nation. I also wanted to say thanks beberry.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by berberry, posted 01-17-2006 4:15 PM | | berberry has replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 172 of 195 (281720)
01-26-2006 9:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 171 by riVeRraT
01-26-2006 8:40 AM
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Re: History
About this quote. Do you think that it is fair that you place that responsibility on me? In other words you are telling me, that if I support same sex marriage, more people will come to know the Lord? it is not he who put the responsibility on you, but jesus.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. if you choose to take that pledge, then it is your dute immaterial of the lifestyle, orientation, personality, whatever of the people around you. when jesus was on earth, he hung out with the most wretched people in society. those who had been outcast. perhaps they had chosen their behaviors, perhaps they had not. immaterial. jesus went to them first and loved them and made them whole and respected them. we are not god's chosen judges. we are merely people trying to do right. select what you think is right for your life. it is the best you can do. then, love your neighbor and your enemy as yourself. do you allow yourself to marry the one you love? then allow your neighbor. if god should select that this person has sinned, then let him judge the marriage in his own time. it is for us only to love. god doesn't need executioners, he's quite good at it himself. Page Not Found
More direct assessment techniques to assess gender identity have been used by Golombok, Spencer, and Rutter (1983) with the same result; all children in this study reported that they were happy with their gender, and that they had no wish to be a member of the opposite sex. There was no evidence in any of the studies of gender identity difficulties among children of lesbian mothers.
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Sex role behavior of children was also assessed by Green and his colleagues (1986). In interviews with the children, no differences between 56 children of lesbian and 48 children of heterosexual mothers were found with respect to favorite television programs, favorite television characters, or favorite games or toys.
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In all studies, the great majority of offspring of both gay fathers and lesbian mothers described themselves as heterosexual. Taken together, the data do not suggest elevated rates of homosexuality among the offspring of lesbian or gay parents. Internal Server Error
Bailey, J.M., Bobrow, D., Wolfe, M., & Mikach, S. (1995). Sexual orientation of adult sons of gay fathers. Developmental Psychology, 31, 124-129. Reports the result of a study of 55 gay or bisexual men who had a total of 82 sons at least 17 years of age. The fathers were recruited through advertisements in gay publications. Eighty-nine percent of the fathers identified themselves as gay. The rest identified themselves as bisexual. More than 90% of the sons whose sexual orientation could be rated were heterosexual. The sexual orientation of the sons was not positively correlated with the amount of time the sons lived with their fathers. The authors conclude that the available evidence fails to provide empirical grounds for denying child custody to lesbian and gay parents because of concern about the effect on the child's sexual orientation. - Bigner, J.J., & Jacobsen, R.B. (1989). Parenting behaviors of homosexual and heterosexual fathers. Journal of Homosexuality, 18(1/2), 173-186. An empirical study of the differences and similarities between 33 gay fathers and 33 nongay fathers as reflected in their responses to the Iowa Parent Behavior Inventory. Fathers of both types were quite similar on degree of involvement and level of intimacy with children. Gay fathers were generally more strict, but were also more responsive, and took more care in socializing their children than their nongay counterparts. - Flaks, D. K., Ficher I., Masterpasqua, F., & Joseph, G. (1995). Lesbians choosing motherhood. A comparative study of lesbian and heterosexual parents and their children. Developmental Psychology, 31, 105-114.. Compares a group of 15 White lesbian couples living together with their 3-9 year old children born to them through artificial insemination with a matched sample of heterosexual parents and their children. A variety of assessment measures including the Child Behavior Checklist, Teacher's Report Form, the Spanier Dyadic Adjustment Scale, the Parent Awareness Skills Survey and either the WPPSI-R or WISC-R were used to measure the children's cognitive functioning and behavioral adjustment as well as the parents' relationship and parenting skills. Results revealed no significant differences between the two groups of children. Both groups of parents showed similar dyadic adjustment. However, the lesbian couples exhibited more parenting awareness skills than did the heterosexual couples. - Golombok, S., Spencer, A., & Rutter, M. (1983). Children in lesbian and single-parent households: Psychosexual and psychiatric appraisal. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 24, 551-572. Compares aspects of child development in 27 lesbian households with a total of 37 children (aged 5-17 years) and 27 heterosexual single-parent households with a total of 38 children (aged 15-17 years). Data were gathered through systematic standardized interviews with mothers and children and through parent and teacher questionnaires. Ratings of the children's psychosexual and psychiatric status were done "blind" to family circumstances. Results indicated no differences between the children of lesbian and heterosexual mothers in gender identity or sex-role behavior. There was no evidence of inappropriate gender identity among the children of lesbian mothers, and age and developmentally appropriate friendships and good peer relationships were observed in both groups. Psychiatric problems among the children were infrequent in both groups but proportionately higher in the heterosexual single-parent group. - Green, R. (1978). Sexual identity of 37 children raised by homosexual or transsexual parents. American Journal of Psychiatry, 135, 692-697. Thirty-seven subjects aged 3-20 years were either raised by lesbian women (21) or by transsexuals (16). Subjects had lived in these households from 1-16 years, with a mean time of 4.9 years. All but one subject indicated that toys, games, clothing, and gender of peers were typical for their gender. Thirteen older subjects indicated erotic fantasies or sexual behaviors, and all these subjects were heterosexual in orientation. - Green R. (1982). The best interests of the child with a lesbian mother. Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, 10, 7-15. Reviews theoretical models and empirical data concerning whether a homosexual parent or two homosexual individuals in parenting roles increases the chance that children will have a homosexual orientation. Also describes court evaluations of adults and children in lesbian custody cases. Fifty-eight children (aged 3-11 years) being raised by lesbian mothers were compared with 43 demographically matched children of divorced heterosexual mothers. Evaluation instruments included the Draw-A-Person test, questions regarding sex-typed activities, and future plans. There were no significant differences for boys or girls in either group of families. It is concluded that difficulties experienced by children in lesbian mother households stem from reactions to divorce and not from the mother's lesbianism. - Green, R., Mandel, J. B., Hotvedt, M. E., Gray, J., & Smith, L. (1986). Lesbian mothers and their children: A comparison with solo parent heterosexual mothers and their children. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 15, 167-184. Assesses psychosexual and psychosocial development of 56 children living with lesbian mothers and 48 children of heterosexual mothers. Groups were matched on mothers' age, race, education and income and on number, age, sex of children, and time since separation from father. Data were collected via questionnaires, audiotaped interviews, and standardized tests. Results revealed no differences between the two groups of children in IQ, self-concept, or social adjustment. There was no evidence of conflict in gender identity in the children of lesbian mothers and no psychopathology related to the mother's sexual orientation. Daughters of lesbians preferred traditionally masculine job roles significantly more often than the daughters of heterosexual mothers and were less traditionally feminine in current dress and in activity preferences at school and at home, but these differences were not beyond the normal range. No difference was found for boys, with 95% of both groups choosing traditionally masculine jobs. - Harris, M. B., & Turner, P. H. (1985). Gay and lesbian parents. Journal of Homosexuality, 12, 101-113. Surveys a small, nonrandom sample of 23 gay and lesbian parents (aged 29-53 years) and 16 heterosexual single parents (aged 19-47 years) concerning relationships with their children. Subjects were all White and highly educated. Parents in all three groups reported positive relationships with their children and few serious problems. Among the differences reported were that heterosexual parents made more efforts to provide an opposite-sex role model for their children. Further, lesbians perceived greater benefits to their children relating to their homosexuality than gay men, while gay men reported fewer disagreements with partners over discipline, more encouragement of play with sex-typed toys, and more satisfaction with their first child than lesbians.
you can read the rest yourself. many of these are statistically handicapped by the selection process and not generalizable. many of these are also restricted by timeline as some only watched early childhood and some late. but these are normal restrictions. so not only are gays and lesbians not bad parents who turn their kids gay, they are often better parents because they agree and are consistent with methods of raising the children and it was heterosexual parents who went out of their way to demonstrate a sex role. there are tons more.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:40 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 174 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 6:23 PM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 173 of 195 (281744)
01-26-2006 11:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 171 by riVeRraT
01-26-2006 8:40 AM
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Re: History
riVeRraT writes me:
quote:
Do you think that it is fair that you place that responsibility on me?
That's not what I meant to do, sorry. I'm simply saying that if Christians would become more accepting and stop insisting that our secular laws follow their religious beliefs and traditions, I would become much more open to any message a Christian might have for me, just as I am in fact more open to any message when it comes from someone who accepts me as his or her equal. If someone feels that I'm not entitled to something that he or she is entitled to based on something other than merit, I will almost certainly reject any message they might have because such a message would necessarily be tainted by bigotry. I'm trying to emphasize to you that I'm not challenging what you believe, rat, I'm challenging your right to put that belief into law. If you can't provide secular reasons for opposing gay marriage then you shouldn't oppose it so far as secular law is concerned. It's not fair to subject me to your religious beliefs, whatever they are. I should have the right to pursue my own happiness in whatever way I choose so long as I don't hurt you or anyone else. If I marry another man, you won't suffer one whit. Why should you oppose it? Can't you see that you're passing judgement when you do oppose it, rat? Didn't Jesus himself say something about passing judgement on your fellow man?
quote:
I do not see how I could possibly think that way, because I am 99.99% sure that God is against it.
God may indeed be opposed to it, although I wouldn't be quite that sure. The question is whether you think God would want you to make that judgement for him; and I would bear in mind the fact that, as you say, this is one of the rare times that God has not given you much direction when you've prayed about it. It really does sound to me like God might be leaving this one up to your own judgement, rat, allowing you to make up your own mind.
quote:
What I am trying to define, is why I am against it in my heart, and do I have a right (or logical reason other than God) to force my moral beliefs (no matter where they come from) on the gay nation.
Well, we're hardly a nation. We're quite a small minority, in fact. Which is one more reason we don't stand a chance of controlling anything, so there's really no reason to be afraid of us. I think that the Supreme Court should rule on this issue. No minority group, especially such a small one as ours, should be subject to majority rule regarding their basic civil rights. I want to thank you for that last quote, but I also want to skin you alive for some of the insensitive things you've said in this thread - and not just to me. Your redeeming grace is your basic attitude as reflected in that quote. So long as you retain it, you might be an insensitive clod but you're still a decent guy. You are one of those rare Christian opponents with whom I feel like I can conduct an honest dialogue on an issue like this.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:40 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 175 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 6:30 PM | | berberry has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: History
we are not god's chosen judges No where ever in my entire posting history have I ever said we were. Instead I have been preaching the opposite, and there is a verse to go with it. Jesus came to save the world, not judge it. But that has nothing to do with if I should support gay marriage or not. If I support it, then I have judged it ok, if I don't then I have judged it not ok, either way I have judged it. Further, we are to judge the way we expect to be judged. So having stated my sexual desires, and then explaining how I will not let them dictate my morals, or what I believe to be right, then I am being fair by expecting the same thing from homosexuals. If I sin, then I expect to be corrected in a loving manor, by being spoken to in truth and love. I also do not expect people to make pot smoking legal, so they can say they love me. So I see a failed logic in putting that responsibility of having to accept same sex marriage on me, and saying it is biblical, or even calling me a hypocrite, something I despise more than anything. Just because Jesus hung out with the sinners, doesn't mean he condoned it. He knew peoples hearts, and that is what counts, your heart, not your sexual postion. He was against all sin, and he put the people in the temple, at the top of the list, because not only where they sinners, but they were hypocrites as well. At least the sinners he hung out with, were not hypocrites, a sign of a good heart.
they are often better parents because they agree and are consistent with methods of raising the children and it was heterosexual parents who went out of their way to demonstrate a sex role. All that info was nice, but you missed my point. I never said homosexuals were bad parents, I know for a fact that they can make great parents. But given the option, I am sure that all people would prefer to be raised by their biological parents, under ideal conditions i.e. love and caring. Not some crazy trailer trash whore slut, who don't give a dam about her kids. 
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 175 of 195 (281813)
01-26-2006 6:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 173 by berberry
01-26-2006 11:30 AM
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Re: History
It's not fair to subject me to your religious beliefs, whatever they are. Yes, I agree with that, so the door can swing both ways. But did you read my secular reasoning for not thinking it was right?
Can't you see that you're passing judgement when you do oppose it, rat? If I oppse it or not, I am still passing a judgement. I am not condenming in anyway though. I have never said you are going to hell for it, that we be beyond wrong IMO.
Well, we're hardly a nation. We're quite a small minority, in fact. Which is one more reason we don't stand a chance of controlling anything, so there's really no reason to be afraid of us. Nation was just a small joke. I am not afraid at all. Sometimes I would rather talk to you, than many straight people.
but I also want to skin you alive for some of the insensitive things you've said in this thread Yea, I would like to skin myself as well, but I am just being truthful, and letting it all out. Not to be mean, but to learn the truth about myself, this situation, and life as well. If we meet each other life outside this forum, we would get along, I would make sure of that, since its always been my goal to get along with everyone.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 173 by berberry, posted 01-26-2006 11:30 AM | | berberry has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1364 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 176 of 195 (283181)
02-01-2006 1:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 169 by riVeRraT
01-26-2006 8:30 AM
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Re: i hope you're not serious rr
We have a right to believe whatever we want, and we can base our morals on it. right. but our laws cannot force religion on anyone.
So people who cannot speak or write, should not marry? I know that last statement was rediculus, but it expresses some of the logic around here. yes. it is ridiculous. there is such a thing as a sign language.
Makes no difference to me, she is sticking up for gay marriage, and we are just discussing it. i'm sticking up for it too -- and i'm not gay either.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:30 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 178 by riVeRraT, posted 02-01-2006 5:23 PM | | arachnophilia has replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 177 of 195 (283241)
02-01-2006 4:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 169 by riVeRraT
01-26-2006 8:30 AM
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Re: i hope you're not serious rr
Makes no difference to me, she is sticking up for gay marriage, and we are just discussing it. well clearly it does make a difference to you since you used something i said to prove your point which was mistaken. it doesn't really matter outside of the fact that by misrepresenting me you misrepresent everything i say. and you still haven't responded to my explanation of how same-sex attraction works which you have ask for so many times and ignored. This message has been edited by brennakimi, 02-01-2006 04:57 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2006 8:30 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 179 by riVeRraT, posted 02-01-2006 5:26 PM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: i hope you're not serious rr
i'm sticking up for it too -- and i'm not gay either. Thats your right, and it makes me proud to say I live in a country where you can think that, way, and I can think my way. What makes me sad is when the difference of opinion goes beyond just being a difference of opinion, and name calling starts to happen. It doesn't bother me in the least that you feel that way. Instead it makes me question why I feel the way I do. I think I came up with good secular reasoning, and in our other conversation, extraordinary reasoning to think it is wrong in the eyes of God. But in this thread, I am not looking to force my Godly beliefs on anyone, or in our government.
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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I am dead serious
and you still haven't responded to my explanation of how same-sex attraction works I did not respond to you exactly, but I responded. I understand the attraction. As humans we desire many things, that could either be wrong or right. We might even be born that way, I would be willing to accept that, but it still isn't proven yet. I explained that I was born with some desires of my own. This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 02-01-2006 05:27 PM
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: History
i would have married her in a heartbeat. And you say your not gay?
i like to think i'd feel free to love whomever i decided. though i have a mild aversion to dating a girl because i don't really want to get the comments i'd get from guys. they're disgusting and i really don't like being a sex-object. That really makes no sense to me. I would think being a girl, you could be considered a sex object no matter who you are dating.
but it's really just like a woman wanting to be with a man... minus (or plus) the penis thing. Well then, it's not the same.
no. i'm professing that you leave schraf and her marriage alone. I don't have to, it's america, a free thinking country. It's your right to think I am wrong. I am not saying I am wrong or right, I was just bringing up a point, and few people here almost jumped out of their skin. Besides, if I am to leave her marriage alone, then she must leave things about me alone. I don't want her to, I want to keep being challenged.
just tell me you don't watch reality tv. cause i'm sure jesus doesn't like voyeurism. I hate it. But if I did, then it's God's will for me to watch it.
5 is right out. you were respectful to your wife that she's not a factory and to your children by not creating more mouths than could be provided for. you're not being selfish at all. I will let God explain that one to you.
i'm sure you know what emotional bonds he's talking about. Lot's of people have sex without the emotion, or negative emotion.
no killing, no lying, no stealing. stuff like that. of course i'm kind of a hippie so i'm not so big on private property. but that doesn't mean i go taking people's stuff. just means i don't keep crap i don't need lying around. I understand all that. I am a pothead from the 70's Life changes, and reality sets in.
jesus was a nifty dude. and i'm awful fond of the beatitudes. the ten commandments are pretty good. once you get past that crazy god stuff that infringes on other peoples' right to their god or not god. i don't like paul, though. i think he was hateful and disgusting. and since i don't believe in biblical inerrancy, i don't have to like him. i like buddhism a bit. but i've not gotten much into it. i intend to amend this. but i've got about 400 books i already have to read in the next 7 years. i's busy. And I believe your exactly where you need to be, I believe you are doing God's will, and he is speaking to you.
i don't understand it either, but i understand it more than i understand straight people. i mean. we're all supposed to have best friends of the same sex right? what is your spouse supposed to be but your very best friend? Freinds can be anything. I always got along with girls a little better than guys. Until you marry one, then it's a whole other ball of wax, but yes, my wife is my best freind. It doesn't seem to justify gay marriage in my head though.
and the only solution to world hunger outside of technology (which you've already said you don't trust) is controlled population. Oh murder. Let's not go there. It's not technology that I don't trust, I love it. It's what men do with it.
and you defend continued overpopulation Why is it, that if I don't represent one extreme, than I must be for the other? I am a middle type of person. I fall in the middle of many subjects. There has to be a happy medium.
maybe if we can get everyone in the world to just have two kids then we'll be okay. I agree with that. I fathered 3. The first is not with me, so I had 2 more. My wife had 2 when I meet her. That's the way the cookie crumbled for me. I love my kids, and they have taught me more about life than anything else.
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