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Author Topic:   Polar ice caps and possible rise in sea level
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 43 of 86 (143189)
09-19-2004 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by wmscott
09-19-2004 9:29 AM


Re: Hydroisostasy & LGM
I invested a great deal of time discussing Wmscott's ideas with him in 2002 and 2003. Now that he has resumed discussion on these topics I feel I have to comment on this:
wmscott writes:
In my book I do have the results of my early findings which include the discovery of marine diatoms at an elevation of 1000 feet in southern Wisconsin and pictures of some of the diatoms I found. Early work, but it is evidence no one here has been able to account for.
Anyone who thinks this is an accurate characterization of the earlier discussion should read these messages from Solving the Mystery of the Biblical Flood II:
  • Message 132
    From me, this message characterizes the diatom evidence specifically (no replication, no peer-reviewed sources) and the debate generally, as well as noting Wmscott's failure to persuade other Creationists.
  • Message 131
    From Bill Birkeland, characterizes the inherent uncertainty in ascribing a marine origin to Wmscott's diatoms.
  • Message 108
    From me, more background about human distribution of diatomaceous material, and some suggestions to Wmscott in the context of helping him develop his evidence for a technical paper. Also includes my reply to Wmscott's bizarre claim that I had made a diatom identification that supported his views.
That thread also includes Wmscott's expression of his intention more than a year ago to submit a technical paper on his findings on diatoms to a peer reviewed journal. One of the serious problems with consideration of Wmscott's evidence is that it had been gathered, examined and analyzed by only himself, and so had not stood up to peer review or replication, so it would be relevant to hear the outcome of this effort.
Wmscott's book is self-published.
I post this message only to correct the record. Wmscott would be correct if had stated that nothing in the prior discussion had caused him to change his views, but it is definitely inaccurate to characterize those he was debating with as flummoxed and unable "to account for" his evidence and arguments.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by wmscott, posted 09-19-2004 9:29 AM wmscott has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by CK, posted 09-19-2004 11:10 AM Percy has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 65 of 86 (143312)
09-20-2004 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by riVeRraT
09-20-2004 8:40 AM


It's a pulley problem. The wheel is actually a pulley. The cord is wrapped around the pulley, and from the free end of the cord hangs a block. As the block falls and pulls the cord, the wheel rotates faster and faster. The question asks for the velicity of the block just as it hits the floor.
Here's the problem statement from Crash again:
Crash writes:
There is a wheel of r = 0.38m and m = 1.3kg and attached to that wheel from a cord is a 0.70kg block that is 1.2m off the ground. If the block is released from rest, what speed will it have just before it hits the floor if there is no friction at the wheel's axis?
Crash only presented the problem to you because you said this:
riVeRraT writes:
I have a common sense understanding of science and physics way beyond any jerk scientist that went to 8 years of college, just because I can look around at things at see whats going on.
But you didn't even recognize it as a pulley problem, let alone provide a solution.
Anyone who devotes a considerable proportion of his life to something, as "jerk scientists" do to science, are bound to become pretty good at it. Crash was trying to make the point that scientists actually know some stuff (a lot of stuff, actually) that you don't about science.
There's no harm in not knowing something. Most of us know almost nothing about everything. But I think Crash's attention was caught by the incongruity of your statement given the level of knowledge demonstrated in your posts so far.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2004 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2004 10:34 PM Percy has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 66 of 86 (143316)
09-20-2004 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by wmscott
09-20-2004 10:02 AM


Re: Hydroisostasy & LGM
Hi, Wmscott!
No one faults you for having insufficient time for research.
Where we fault you is in your expectation that we should give serious consideration to your evidence which has seen no peer review or replication.
I, personally, still fault you for initially hiding the fact that you were the author of the book you were promoting, and for not mentioning that it was self-published. This is not the way to establish the trust that might have helped you promote your views. I don't want to hear your rationalizations again. The only thing that would satisfy me is an acknowledgment of your error and a promise and committment to do better in the future by making scrupulous honesty your goal.
When making disclosures there are always questions about what one should and shouldn't include. You answer this conumdrum by asking yourself, "Am I building an impression in people's minds that is contrary to the truth?" In the case of your promotion of your book, the question you should have asked yourself was, "Does this review give the impression it was written by someone who read the book and found it worthwhile, rather than that it was written by the author?"
And in the case of self-publishing the book, you should have asked yourself, "If I don't mention it, will people assume my book was published through traditional channels, thereby lending it greater credibility in their minds than if they knew it was self-published?"
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by wmscott, posted 09-20-2004 10:02 AM wmscott has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 82 of 86 (143600)
09-21-2004 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by riVeRraT
09-21-2004 8:46 AM


riVeRraT writes:
A first year physics student would not have to figure the formulas out on his own. He would just apply the formulas that was taught to him. Some else did all the hard work for him already. Someone much smarter than him. I am telling you , that I can try and come up with the formula bymyself without anyones help, or college education. I'm sure the person who invented the formula for angular momentum didn't do it in 20 mintues.
Crash has already made his point, so there's no reason for you to continue trying to solve this problem.
Crash's point was not that scientists are smarter than you, but that they have received training. That's why the jerk physics major who perhaps can't find his way from the cafeteria to his office can solve the problem in a minute and you won't be able to solve it in your lifetime, unless you look up the equations in a book or on the Internet. If you like puzzles then keep working at it, but be forewarned that the derivations for rotational energy equations are far from simple.
This thread is more geology than physics, but the same principles hold. Geologists receive training. They know a great deal about how various forces shape the earth. And you can share in this knowledge simply by reading an elementary geology book, and then you'll be able to propose scenarios that are consistent with both the evidence and with the forces and timeframes necessary to produce that evidence.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2004 8:46 AM riVeRraT has not replied

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