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Author Topic:   How to debate the "Evolution Should NOT be taught in public schools" perspective?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 46 of 68 (440597)
12-13-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Dani2008
12-13-2007 7:39 PM


Re: excuse me
He's talking to himself.
You'll have to excuse him; he thinks he's a comedian. The fact that he doesn't know how to tell a joke never seems to bother him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Dani2008, posted 12-13-2007 7:39 PM Dani2008 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 47 of 68 (440602)
12-13-2007 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Dani2008
12-13-2007 7:39 PM


Re: excuse me
If you look more closely, you will see that he was replying to an earlier post that he himself had written. And I believe that he also quoted from his own earlier post. A definite stab at humor.
FWIW, I have been known to review older code from our software project (over a hundred files and, I'm sure, several thousands of lines of code) and shake my head wondering what that idiot was thinking. Then I realize it was something that I had written a few years prior.
Notice the punch line of Silent H's joke. As he suddenly realized that he had written the post that he was now criticizing.

{When you search for God, y}ou can't go to the people who believe already. They've made up their minds and want to convince you of their own personal heresy.
("The Jehovah Contract", AKA "Der Jehova-Vertrag", by Viktor Koman, 1984)
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world.
(from filk song "Word of God" by Dr. Catherine Faber, No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/WORDGOD.HTML)
Of course, if Dr. Mortimer's surmise should be correct and we are dealing with forces outside the ordinary laws of Nature, there is an end of our investigation. But we are bound to exhaust all other hypotheses before falling back upon this one.
(Sherlock Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles)
Gentry's case depends upon his halos remaining a mystery. Once a naturalistic explanation is discovered, his claim of a supernatural origin is washed up. So he will not give aid or support to suggestions that might resolve the mystery. Science works toward an increase in knowledge; creationism depends upon a lack of it. Science promotes the open-ended search; creationism supports giving up and looking no further. It is clear which method Gentry advocates.
("Gentry's Tiny Mystery -- Unsupported by Geology" by J. Richard Wakefield, Creation/Evolution Issue XXII, Winter 1987-1988, pp 31-32)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Dani2008, posted 12-13-2007 7:39 PM Dani2008 has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 48 of 68 (440633)
12-13-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Dani2008
12-13-2007 7:39 PM


Re: excuse me
As noted already, I was making a joke at my own expense.
The thing is while I stated (in your thread) that there was no way to write anything on why ToE should NOT be taught, within this much older thread I had actually come up with something.
While I pointed out some of the problems in that original post (the one I am replying to), I mention another oversight in the reply.
So I'm the dumbass, not you.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Dani2008, posted 12-13-2007 7:39 PM Dani2008 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by dwise1, posted 12-14-2007 1:09 AM Silent H has not replied
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 12-14-2007 1:39 AM Silent H has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 49 of 68 (440664)
12-14-2007 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Silent H
12-13-2007 10:34 PM


Re: excuse me
"So I said to myself, 'Self, ... '"
(Arlo Gutherie)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Silent H, posted 12-13-2007 10:34 PM Silent H has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 501 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 50 of 68 (440668)
12-14-2007 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Silent H
12-13-2007 10:34 PM


Re: excuse me
If you talk to yourself, that's okay.
If you argue with yourself, that's okay.
If you argue with yourself and lose... you might have a problem.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Silent H, posted 12-13-2007 10:34 PM Silent H has not replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5990 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 51 of 68 (440926)
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom, wither it be only 1 Christian student in the classroom. Their job is to teach biology not Darwinism/Humanism or even what the teachers own belief supports!
I am a Christian. if these teachers ever do this to my(future)offspring, I will indeed beat them until they apologize for their own ignorance! I believe God holds the man/father accountable for what his family do,say,and believe. Therefor since I believe this, I hope many of you understand why I would be angry with those teachers.
I believe it is my responsibility as when I start a family, God will hold me accountable, because if I fail and do not be responsible, God will indeed strike his wrath on me, but not my family, for they look to me for guidance. So I disagree that this should be a requirement for a student to actually graduate from a public school.
There is a separation of Church and State, therefor I also believe if the state tampers/messes with a childes belief(exp:Christianity)and is also treading on dangerous territory, because the state will be teaching someones child what the State/non-parent believes. I simply do not care if its up to the child to choose what he/she believes, The man/father is held responsible and accountable for His family. I am not sexist, but I do believe that women will not be held responsible, nor accountable for their family as much as a man will be. I read in the Bible, that man is the provider and caretaker of his family(provide guidance & the responsibility of caring for them). I'm sorry, but I will not fail to provide and care for my family, therefor SUFFER GOD'S WRATH, just because a man/woman wants to share their beliefs(Atheism/Humanism/Darwinism/Paganism/Evolution)with someone else that isn't your child or apart of your family. I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE & I WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY FAMILY! AMEN!
sincerely yours, Amen.

2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you and you shall answer me." JOB 38:23

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Chiroptera, posted 12-15-2007 12:23 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 12-15-2007 12:48 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 54 by crashfrog, posted 12-15-2007 12:48 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 55 by Silent H, posted 12-15-2007 1:43 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 57 by jar, posted 12-15-2007 3:10 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 58 by bluescat48, posted 12-15-2007 4:19 PM Am5n has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 68 (440927)
12-15-2007 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


if these teachers ever do this to my(future)offspring, I will indeed beat them until they apologize for their own ignorance!
Is this what Jesus would have done?

If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 12:20 PM Am5n has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 501 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 53 of 68 (440929)
12-15-2007 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


Amen. writes:
Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom, wither it be only 1 Christian student in the classroom.
If they show how creationism is wrong, is that "mocking" Christianity?

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 12:20 PM Am5n has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 54 of 68 (440930)
12-15-2007 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom, wither it be only 1 Christian student in the classroom.
Is it "mocking" to contradict the teachings of your faith?
I'm sorry, but I will not fail to provide and care for my family, therefor SUFFER GOD'S WRATH, just because a man/woman wants to share their beliefs(Atheism/Humanism/Darwinism/Paganism/Evolution)with someone else that isn't your child or apart of your family.
Boy, sounds like you're in an untenable position. God wants you to teach your children things that are false, and he's going to hold you accountable when well-meaning individuals inform them of the actual truth.
That sucks for you. Have you thought about atheism? The best part is that there's no angry sky daddy breathing down your neck to make sure you fill your childrens' heads with falsehoods under pain of hellfire. (Also the pancakes are pretty good.)

This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 55 of 68 (440933)
12-15-2007 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom
Even if there are no Xians in the classroom, no teacher should be mocking Xianity while on the public payroll.
As other have asked, do you feel teaching evolution is mocking your faith? If that is true, then they cannot teach evolution according to your rules.
But evolution does not mock any religion. And while it does include "Darwinism", it does not advocate humanism. I would also point out that biology science teachers don't "want" to teach evolution, they want to teach science. In order to do that they MUST teach evolutionary theory. Otherwise they are mocking science and the intelligence of students in the classroom.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 12:20 PM Am5n has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Chiroptera, posted 12-15-2007 1:46 PM Silent H has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 68 (440934)
12-15-2007 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Silent H
12-15-2007 1:43 PM


But evolution does not mock any religion.
Sort of combining this with what crashfrog said, but when a religion teaches "truths" that are clearly factually wrong, then the religion is pretty much self-mocking.

If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

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jar
Member
Posts: 34065
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 57 of 68 (440943)
12-15-2007 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


mocking Christianity
Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom, wither it be only 1 Christian student in the classroom. Their job is to teach biology not Darwinism/Humanism or even what the teachers own belief supports!
Teaching that evolution is a fact and that the TOE is the best explanation, no, the only explanation to date is not mocking Christianity.
I am a Christian. if these teachers ever do this to my(future)offspring, I will indeed beat them until they apologize for their own ignorance!
Classic it seems. The Christian Cult of Ignorance seems to move directly to violence. I suppose that is because they have never been taught reason.
I believe God holds the man/father accountable for what his family do,say,and believe. Therefor since I believe this, I hope many of you understand why I would be angry with those teachers.
I believe it is my responsibility as when I start a family, God will hold me accountable, because if I fail and do not be responsible, God will indeed strike his wrath on me, but not my family, for they look to me for guidance. So I disagree that this should be a requirement for a student to actually graduate from a public school.
Well, it looks like your God is a sexist bigot as well as one that promotes ignorance over knowledge. It also appears your God too moves straight to violence. Likely your God never learned how to reason either.
There is a separation of Church and State, therefor I also believe if the state tampers/messes with a childes belief(exp:Christianity)and is also treading on dangerous territory, because the state will be teaching someones child what the State/non-parent believes. I simply do not care if its up to the child to choose what he/she believes, The man/father is held responsible and accountable for His family. I am not sexist, but I do believe that women will not be held responsible, nor accountable for their family as much as a man will be. I read in the Bible, that man is the provider and caretaker of his family(provide guidance & the responsibility of caring for them). I'm sorry, but I will not fail to provide and care for my family, therefor SUFFER GOD'S WRATH, just because a man/woman wants to share their beliefs(Atheism/Humanism/Darwinism/Paganism/Evolution)with someone else that isn't your child or apart of your family. I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE & I WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY FAMILY! AMEN!
So put your kids in one of the many Christian Cult of Ignorance Avoidance schools where they can be sheltered from being exposed to truth, honesty, knowledge, ethics, morals or critical thinking.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 12:20 PM Am5n has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4278 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 58 of 68 (440951)
12-15-2007 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Am5n
12-15-2007 12:20 PM


There is a separation of Church and State, therefor I also believe if the state tampers/messes with a childes belief(exp:Christianity)and is also treading on dangerous territory, because the state will be teaching someones child what the State/non-parent believes. I simply do not care if its up to the child to choose what he/she believes, The man/father is held responsible and accountable for His family. I am not sexist, but I do believe that women will not be held responsible, nor accountable for their family as much as a man will be. I read in the Bible, that man is the provider and caretaker of his family(provide guidance & the responsibility of caring for them). I'm sorry, but I will not fail to provide and care for my family, therefor SUFFER GOD'S WRATH, just because a man/woman wants to share their beliefs(Atheism/Humanism/Darwinism/Paganism/Evolution)with someone else that isn't your child or apart of your family. I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE & I WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY FAMILY! AMEN!
sincerely yours, Amen.
Yes there is separation of church and state but what does that have to do with evolution which is science not religion.
Just because your cult believes that "I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE & I WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY FAMILY! AMEN!" does not mean that everyone should cowtow to your beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 12:20 PM Am5n has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 4:51 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5990 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 59 of 68 (440959)
12-15-2007 4:40 PM


quote:
Well if they want to teach evolution they can, but I will never agree that teachers have the right to mock Christianity in a school classroom
thats what I mean, I really don't care if they teach evolution, but what the hell gives them the right to mock and laugh at someones belief? I would probably expect this from people out in public, not a public school where a teacher that teaches evolution decides to tell jokes and mock a students belief, just teach the class and don't mock a students belief.
quote:
If they show how creationism is wrong, is that "mocking" Christianity?
by throwing jokes around?... yep 3 yrs i was taking biology and the teacher mocked Christianity(my belief) and threw jokes around(to me they were insulting). so guess what happen? I called my attorney he set up a meeting with the Principal, which my father attended as well as myself. I told the Principal what happen, then my attorney said,"tell your staff to just do his job or you might want to think about firing him, cause if this happens again, theres going to be a problem, wanna goto court?". The main idea of me saying this is, because obviously it seems some teachers wanna do more then just teach their students, which in this case the teacher got fired. why? He did it a 2nd time!
quote:
but when a religion teaches "truths" that are clearly factually wrong, then the religion is pretty much self-mocking.
You can believe whatever you want to believe, but where is Christianity shown in biology text books? NO WHERE! so therefor its not apart of biology and the teachers shouldn't be saying anything about Christianity! because it has nothing to do with subject she/he is teaching. The students keep their belief out of public schools because of the separation between church and state, but it doesn't give teachers the right to slander,joke,or mock Christianity when it clearly has nothing to do with the subject she/he is teaching!
quote:
Teaching that evolution is a fact and that the TOE is the best explanation, no, the only explanation to date is not mocking Christianity.
I don't mind them teaching evolution, but they shouldn't slander,joke,or mock a religion when its most definitely has nothing to do with that their teaching. "if its not in the text book" it should not be taught".
quote:
Well, it looks like your God is a sexist bigot as well as one that promotes ignorance over knowledge. It also appears your God too moves straight to violence. Likely your God never learned how to reason either.
My God? I didn't even put God in it. I said what I believe. oh I'm sorry if I don't consider women = to men(but thats off topic and so is your insult) Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't evolutionist do experiments on animals(this experiment also killed some of the animals) in the early 1900's? yea jar a lot of people complained about what they called "Animal Cruelty".
quote:
So put your kids in one of the many Christian Cult of Ignorance Avoidance schools
I shouldn't have to. This country was founded by God fearing people, not evolutionist. a lot of Christians died during times of war, they've prayed before battle, they've killed and died for this country. What has evolution done, besides denying and making fun of our God? huh? what has it done? The Christians have done more to & for this country, this land of freedom, then evolution ever will.
Evolution:
no truth, no honesty, no knowledge, no ethics, no morals or no critical thinking, just question everything you see hear and believe.

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by AdminNosy, posted 12-15-2007 4:47 PM Am5n has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 60 of 68 (440961)
12-15-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Am5n
12-15-2007 4:40 PM


Perhaps a new topic, Amen?
don't mind them teaching evolution, but they shouldn't slander,joke,or mock a religion when its most definitely has nothing to do with that their teaching. "if its not in the text book" it should not be taught".
I doubt that there is anyone here who would disagree with you on this. Religion has no place in the science classroom: either in favor of it or mocking it.
Separately, mocking someone from a position of power (on any topic) is unfair and a practice that a principal should strongly reprimand.
So this issue is not really on topic here at all. It has nothing (as best as I can tell) to do with the teaching of evolution.
If you wish to tell us more detail about this incident (such as what was said in mockery). You could open a new thread in the Proposed New Topics area. Thanks, it should be interesting to everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Am5n, posted 12-15-2007 4:40 PM Am5n has not replied

  
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