Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-17-2019 12:57 AM
17 online now:
AZPaul3, PaulK (2 members, 15 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 853,883 Year: 8,919/19,786 Month: 1,341/2,119 Week: 101/576 Day: 2/99 Hour: 2/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Department Of Homeland Security Inaction At the Top
Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 8 of 297 (240290)
09-03-2005 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
09-02-2005 8:51 PM


Hounds are on the hunt.
"Response -- Lead, manage and coordinate the national response to acts of terrorism, natural disasters, or other emergencies."

Bush damage control is already at work. Friday night on The OReilly Factor, OReilly said that Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, governor of Louisiana, should apologize for her late decision in getting the necessary National Guard in place after the hurricane and that she should catch the looters and prosecute them to the limit to redeem her image.
As far as I can see Fox is the only network that is placing the blame on her. It probably wont be long before Limbaugh and Hanity get onboard to spin their shit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 09-02-2005 8:51 PM RAZD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by arachnophilia, posted 09-03-2005 6:55 PM Peal has not yet responded
 Message 149 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 12:57 AM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 93 of 297 (240868)
09-06-2005 4:39 PM


To me, being we are a nation at war, why with 90 percent of the oil production in the Gulf of Mexico halted, with a time span of months to years before this production is reestablished, some will never be back online, with the refinery infrastructure in the area disabled, and two major pipelines that supply fuel to the east and northeast, at reduced capacity, this was not seen as a threat to national security? Why didn’t Bush get the federal government involved immediately to manage the removal of the survivors, recovery of the dead, and the rebuilding of the infrastructure? Maybe he realizes this now; you know he is kind of slow. Now the damage control is in full force. I am sure Blanco and Nagin could have handled it better than they did, but Bush is to blame also.

But looking at the people trapped in New Orleans there are not many republican voters in those images. So why worry about them. Lets promise Blanco the world, give her a loaf of bread, and when she falls on her face, we will come in and be the heroes. You know set a platform for a republican victory next gubernatorial election.

Typical Karl Rove politics.

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-06-2005 05:21 PM


Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 09-06-2005 6:36 PM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 104 of 297 (240939)
09-06-2005 9:21 PM


Did she ask?
With all of the discussion about whether Blanco asked Bush for help or not is sure spinning. Like Bush I failed political science too. So can someone tell me if Blanco is asking for help or not from this letter?

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976


Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 143 of 297 (242626)
09-12-2005 3:10 PM


Brown is gone
Browm head of FEMA has just resigned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050912/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_brown

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-12-2005 03:13 PMadded link

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-12-2005 03:13 PM


Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2005 10:33 PM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 155 of 297 (243275)
09-14-2005 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by gene90
09-14-2005 12:57 AM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
gene90 says:

"FEMA is not responsible for everything that goes on in a disaster area. Their purpose is not to take over, but to assist local authorities. They cannot be legally deployed until formally requested by a governor."

President Bush says:

"The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

Oh by the way if you read the link, he doesn't even include the effected parishes. How do you explan that, if you please.

And the reason President Bush made the above statement was in response to this.

Blanco asks for federal help 2 day before landfall

"Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

So who dropped the ball?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 12:57 AM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 10:36 AM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 156 of 297 (243282)
09-14-2005 9:33 AM


Look, President Bush has already said that the he was taking the blame for failures at the federal level. So the only thing now is to establish a timeline that shows when the feds should have gotten involved. I still think, from what I've read, that Blanco asked for federal help on Saturday 8/27/05. Read it in the link I provide in the post above. So is that the date, or does anyone see it as Friday 9/2/05, when the feds really got involved.
Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 10:46 AM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 159 of 297 (243455)
09-14-2005 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by gene90
09-14-2005 10:36 AM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
“No, that's a press release from his office.”

It doesn’t say on the document that it is a press release; I think it was an authorization for FEMA to go to work. But for the sake of argument let’s call it a press release.
So I was in error when I said Bush said.

Her estimate of 9 million dollars was wrong, but that’s understandable considering she did it before any damage had occurred. Granted I would not use her to do any bids on any construction projects. But low dollar estimates are not a crime.

“............ finding Blanco's letter but it is completely irrelevant. Nothing she asked for made any difference. To be fair, it was only a Cat 3 when she wrote it.”

What I read from the letter was that she was asking for was federal help because “the effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments”. She did this on the 27 and landfall was the 29 that is correct. But I am sure that she just didn’t put a stamp on the letter and mail it to Bush. I bet there was a phone call in there somewhere. And depending on the time frame of the call and landfall, it could have been 48 hours. That does not seem unreasonable.

“To be fair, it was only a Cat 3 when she wrote it.”

Let me get this straight.
First she doesn’t react fast enough, slow to respond.

Second she reacts to fast because it is only a cat 3 storm, even though all predictions said that is could develop into a cat 4 or 5 before landfall, and that it will landfall somewhere around New Orleans.

Ok, I think I understand now.

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-14-2005 06:27 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 10:36 AM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 6:57 PM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 232 of 297 (243827)
09-15-2005 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by gene90
09-14-2005 10:36 AM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
Gene
are you saying that this is all that Blanco asked for in her letter to Bush.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blanco asks for federal help 2 day before landfall
"Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you not read the entire letter?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST
Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.

Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

Totals: $ 9,000,000
Grand Total: $ 9,000,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the total that Blanco is asking for. $9 million dollars.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by gene90, posted 09-14-2005 10:36 AM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:19 PM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 234 of 297 (243856)
09-15-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by gene90
09-15-2005 1:19 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
Gene

"supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance,"

Does this part of the letter, "supplementary federal assistance", refer to FEMA in your opinion?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:19 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:44 PM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 236 of 297 (243859)
09-15-2005 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by gene90
09-15-2005 1:44 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
So was FEMA involved on the 27?

Grammer edit!

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-15-2005 01:54 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:44 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:55 PM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 238 of 297 (243865)
09-15-2005 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by gene90
09-15-2005 1:55 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
Wait Gene, don't draw your pistol yet.

On the 27th, however, Katrina was a category 3 hurricane that would make landfall somewhere between Louisiana and Alabama, and New Orleans was dry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina#Saturday.2C_August_27

This says it was going into New Orleans

Saturday, August 27
Katrina is upgraded to a Category 3 hurricane.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin calls for a voluntary evacuation of the city. The emergency plans rely on citizens to bring their own 3-day supply of food and water to the Superdome and Convention Center. Current Louisiana Emergency Evacuation guidelines allow use of public school buses [2]. It is currently disputed whether or not they were used to transport the poor to the superdome. [3]
National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield and President Bush call on Mayor Nagin to declare a mandatory evacuation. [4] and [5]
Governor Blanco requests that President Bush declare a major disaster for the State of Louisiana in a letter through FEMA Region VI Director [6] Gary Jones [7]. In the 4-page letter, she makes specific requests under the Stafford Act for aid (housing, counseling, unemployment, and Small business funding) as well as requesting "direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property" (by removing debris) and agrees to reduced liability but does not request federal troops to be deployed in the state until August 31.[8] Note, Blanco's letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on that same day -- see [9].
In response to Governor Blanco's request, President Bush declares a Federal state of emergency in Louisiana under the authority of the Stafford Act [10]. The emergency declaration provides for federal assistance and funding [11] and assigns to FEMA, by law, the responsibility for coordinating relief efforts [12]. The declaration [13] does not cover the parishes expected to receive the most damage, like Jefferson Parish and New Orleans (Orleans Parish). This was a bizarre "twist" since Governor Blanco specifically mentioned all the Southeast Louisiana Parishes by name in her in her request to President Bush. See[14]A map of the very peculiar Federal declaration of emergency parishes is provided by Bob Harris here: http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/637/1/


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 1:55 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 2:03 PM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 240 of 297 (243868)
09-15-2005 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by gene90
09-15-2005 2:03 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
This says Kitrina could become a Category 4
She had to make a decision based on someones prediction.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/pub/al122005.public.017.shtml?

AT 10 AM CDT...1500Z...A HURRICANE WATCH IS IN EFFECT FOR THE
SOUTHEASTERN COAST OF LOUISIANA EAST OF MORGAN CITY TO THE MOUTH OF
THE PEARL RIVER...INCLUDING METROPOLITAN NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE
PONCHARTRAIN. A HURRICANE WATCH MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS
ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WATCH AREA...GENERALLY WITHIN 36 HOURS.

KATRINA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 7 MPH...11 KM/HR. A GRADUAL
TURN TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 24
HOURS.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 115 MPH...185 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. KATRINA IS A CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
SCALE. SOME STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS...
AND KATRINA COULD BECOME A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 2:03 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Peal, posted 09-15-2005 2:20 PM Peal has not yet responded
 Message 243 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 2:32 PM Peal has responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 241 of 297 (243869)
09-15-2005 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Peal
09-15-2005 2:19 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
In the above post the advisory was on the 27.
Later

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-15-2005 02:27 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Peal, posted 09-15-2005 2:19 PM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 242 of 297 (243870)
09-15-2005 2:23 PM


Gene
We will talk later. I have a 3 hour drive ahead of me.
But like you said Blanco already accepted blame. She is as much of a man as Bush. Later.
Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 2:39 PM Peal has not yet responded

Peal
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 03-11-2004


Message 250 of 297 (243965)
09-15-2005 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by gene90
09-15-2005 2:32 PM


Re: Hounds are on the hunt.
Retract post

This message has been edited by Peal, 09-15-2005 10:28 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by gene90, posted 09-15-2005 2:32 PM gene90 has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019