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Author Topic:   First Openly Gay Congressman dies... hero or villain?
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 16 of 111 (356613)
10-15-2006 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 10:52 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
I would say that suppression if not channeled through a healthy avenue can have these effects, but I wouldn't hesitate to clarify that pornography is 99.8% the culprit. And having said that, that doesn't automatically mean that people that look at porn are going to become sexual deviants. What it does mean is that pornography is the stepping stone for virtually all the cases of this.
do you have any evidence to support this at all? or is this merely a way to scapegoat something that doens't affect you?
the fact is that there is evidence that porn is far from the culprit, and even if every rapest and murder or what have you, is found with porn in thier house doesn't mean its the cause of what they did. they are psychologically damaged already and would have found the outlet that got them into trouble with or without porn
you basicly killed your support of porn not causing people to become sexual devients by saying its the cause of people becoming sexual devients!
what is your evidence? mine is the psychological records of many of the people who kill or rape or other problems, if porn is anything, it slows down the person from starting sooner in thier rampages on unsupecting people

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:52 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 12:07 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 915 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 17 of 111 (356615)
10-15-2006 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 10:52 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Nemesis Juggernaut writes:
I would say that suppression if not channeled through a healthy avenue can have these effects, but I wouldn't hesitate to clarify that pornography is 99.8% the culprit. And having said that, that doesn't automatically mean that people that look at porn are going to become sexual deviants. What it does mean is that pornography is the stepping stone for virtually all the cases of this.
I am puzzled about how you came up with the figure 99.8%. If the relationship is linear, wouldn't such a figure indicate that societies that do not have access to pornography would have a 0.2% per capita rate of sexual deviance?
This goes back to the question of definitions.
What is sexual deviance? Please define.
Also what is pornography? Please define.
As I have discovered through the school of hard knocks here, without establishing a proper definition of terms either at the outset or at least at the point of assertion, posts soon lose any meaning whatsoever.
Edited by anglagard, : percentage off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 111 (356616)
10-15-2006 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2006 3:12 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
really? you mean the fact that sexual urges are natural and normal has nothing to do with it? and the fact that expressing these healthily and openly makes one well-adjusted and that hiding them in the dark and feeling guilty about how god made you leaves you completely psychologically messed up has nothing to do with it?
Sexual desire is normal and it is healthy. I don't contend with that in the least. However, when a natural desire and those legitimate emotions are replaced with cheap substitutes, I think it has a detrimental effect on the psyche. This isn't a belief only shared in religious communities. There are secular fields who feel ther same way.
porn causes nothing.
Its a catalyst. An interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is their penchant for pornography. Every one of them got their start here. But the acts become increasingly more bizarre and the introduction of these bizarre acts moves further into depravity into some unnatural uses for the body. We may start with a healthy inquisition by looking at our dad's Playboy, or what have you, which could be viewed as harmless enough. But unless its checked and expressed in a healthy way, those natural inclinations can take on some dark aberrations.
it just introduces people to a world they were wrongly kept from.
Nobody wants to keep anyone away from sex. Far from it. The only thing that these people want protected is the sacredness of sex and love. When it loses its sacredness, it turns into a cheap substitute that often leaves the person still wanting.
if these people were allowed to even whack it without feeling ashamed, then maybe the shame that they naturally feel from boning the nearest four year old would be as monumental and convicting as it ought to be.
Perhaps that shame is natures way of warning us mentally just as nerve endings serve to warn us physically. Do you find it mystifying that porn shops have blacked out windows, or the man trolling for sex lies about his whereabouts? Is that societally induced from a repressive religiosity? I doubt you could say that when visiting native american tribes or pacific islanders or tribes in the amazon who don't understand these religious views, and yet, maintain an understanding of sacredness in chastity. Don't you find that coincidental?

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 3:12 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 11:34 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5126 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 19 of 111 (356617)
10-15-2006 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 6:52 PM


Re: What's really going on?
So, what part of Portland do you live? East or West? I live in East County which is pretty damn ghetto. I think its time to move.
Don't care to get this off topic, even in Coffee House, but I'm in the Southeast. Just moved from Colorado. Check my profile for my email if you'd like to commiserate. I'd welcome it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 6:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4006 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 20 of 111 (356669)
10-15-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 3:50 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Is that societally induced from a repressive religiosity?
yes.
I doubt you could say that when visiting native american tribes or pacific islanders or tribes in the amazon who don't understand these religious views, and yet, maintain an understanding of sacredness in chastity.
don't just say things like this. prove it.
what about the pacific islanders in which the men and boys live in a central lodge and have sex with each other and only go home to their wives (who own their own homes) to impregnate them?
i'd wager that you have no idea what you're talking about and are spouting bullshit you heard in church somewhere. but that's just my guess.
However, when a natural desire and those legitimate emotions are replaced with cheap substitutes
what are you talking about?
no, i know what you're taling about, but it's bullshit.
An interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is their penchant for pornography.
you know most serial killers' favourite ice cream is butter pecan? guess what mine is. oh shit!
an interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is that they were abused as children. they seek to take back the power that was taken from them and express that in different ways. if it's not power they're seeking, generally, they're just insane. it's not because of the dopamine release and the need to have increased dopamine release everytime no matter what you or my mother say. why doesn't "normal" christian married sex create increased dopamine need? does god protect you from becoming serial killers?
But unless its checked and expressed in a healthy way, those natural inclinations can take on some dark aberrations.
healthy does not mean think about baseball and go back to your studies.
The only thing that these people want protected is the sacredness of sex and love. When it loses its sacredness, it turns into a cheap substitute that often leaves the person still wanting.
then teach the sacredness of love and sex. this is found in realizing the importance of giving pleasure and kindness to another person, not waiting till you're married so you can bone her viciously and wait around for her to tell you she has a headache. it has nothing to do with making babies. it has nothing to do with worshipping god. it has to do with seeking first the pleasure of another and being wondrously surprised when they do the same and please you. this can be found in marriage (i hope) in a friendship, in a dating scenario, and so forth. it is when you come across someone who isn't interested in seeking your pleasure as much as you are interested in seeking his that it becomes "cheapened". sex is how we procreate. it is also one of the ways we bond and form small tribal groups. you are more affectionate with your close friends than with others right? what's to stop that from being sexual in a different time when we didn't have fifty thousand preachers telling us that sexual expression is sinful? i don't know if you've read your bible recently, but that's what it says. okay maybe not sinful but undesireable. paul, that dear asshole that founded christianity, said that it is preferable to remain celibate, but okay to marry and bone a woman to keep from sinning. why? because he was talking to men and women are not important and have nothing to contribute. albeit he later contradicts himself, but then what good religous leader doesn't?
you want sacredness in your sex? teach your children to respect themselves and others enough to admit and healthily express themselves and always use care and protection. teach them to ask about testing and teach them about how sex works. if it is open and honest and not dark, secret, and sinful, it doesn't cause these things. you do know that people lived in one bedroom houses until very recently, right? and children slept in the same room as their parents who were boinking, right? i'm not suggesting you do this. it might result in a healthy child in other situations, but not in this culture. but be honest and open with them. generally expression leads to sex play and not actual sex. in fact, most children engage in sex play on their own. of course we generally beat them for it and shame them and then they end up cold and dispassionate when we actually allow them to get married.
no, no, porn causes depravity.
now, i'm willing to agree that much porn creates an artificial world in which men dominate. but i'd wager that it's because of the audience. the actual industry is run by women and probably the single most empowering industry there is. but this doesn't change the face that she gets it in the face and he doesn't. but this is due to the secretive nature of it. if you put it all in the dark, then the dark parts are free to be expressed. but then when you think dark bits you think bondage and homosexuality and when i think dark bits i think abuse, murder, rape, incest... but then i'm just a crazy liberal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:50 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 2:38 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 111 (356674)
10-15-2006 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ReverendDG
10-15-2006 3:30 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
the fact is that there is evidence that porn is far from the culprit, and even if every rapest and murder or what have you, is found with porn in thier house doesn't mean its the cause of what they did. they are psychologically damaged already and would have found the outlet that got them into trouble with or without porn
Pornography maybe a harmless and inquisitive endeavor at first, and certainly there is bueaty in the naked human form. Pornography, though, doesn't enhance this qualitative bueaty, it eradicates it and turns into something reprehensible. Those that lightly browse through it find themselves and their time devoted to ever-increasing bouts with it. Pornography, like cocaine or methamphetamines, is like a stimulant and considered by its honest adherents as highly addictive. It creates a strong physiological response in the viewer that almost certainly will become dulled from subsequent viewings. From the diminishment of "feeling" it could lead people into darker forms of pornography. And further down the path the individual is lead into depravity.
I also find it interesting that some obvious societal markers are not being recognized by my critics. Isn't it interesting that virtually all employers, secular or otherwise, can and will fire their employers if pornographic images have been downloaded on company computers. Any other download might give you a warning to get back to work at most. Pornography is different and everybody knows it. That's why pornshop windows are blacked out, that's why its taboo. It has less to do with what any religious person feels and more to do that, even though they wish is wasn't true, society frowns upon it.
But to be sure, what do you suppose Percy who is of a more liberal ilk than some would think if I posted pornographic images on the web? What would happen to me? I'd be banned. Hmmmmmm, interesting. And yet, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. How do you reconcile that dichotomy?
But let me be certain to share that puritanical homes that turn sexuality into some evil compulsion have an ostensibly negative effect on teenagers, especially when coupled with clandestine viewing of pornography. The polarization between purity and non-purity can often produce the worst offenders.
what is your evidence? mine is the psychological records of many of the people who kill or rape or other problems, if porn is anything, it slows down the person from starting sooner in thier rampages on unsupecting people.
It doesn't mitigate the effects it exacerbates the frequency and turns sexuality into paraphiliac aberrations. There are numerous reports that marry pornography to a host of problems from psychosomatic to pyschophysiological.

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ReverendDG, posted 10-15-2006 3:30 AM ReverendDG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 12:27 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 10-15-2006 12:52 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 24 by Michael, posted 10-15-2006 1:13 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 37 by anglagard, posted 10-15-2006 6:39 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 38 by ReverendDG, posted 10-15-2006 6:40 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4006 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 22 of 111 (356678)
10-15-2006 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 12:07 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
i'm only going to say this once, and you had better drop it after.
porn store windows are blacked out because it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to be provided with these images. the blacking out of windows is how the stores prevent themselves from getting shut down (it's actually probably required by law). it's not because they're ashamed, it's because it's the law. also, this is why many stores check id when you enter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:11 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1545 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 111 (356684)
10-15-2006 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 12:07 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
I also find it interesting that some obvious societal markers are not being recognized by my critics. Isn't it interesting that virtually all employers, secular or otherwise, can and will fire their employers if pornographic images have been downloaded on company computers. Any other download might give you a warning to get back to work at most.
I work for the Federal government, and I can tell you that, in addition to being pornography, gambling isn't allowed on the office computers either. It's an exactly equal offense.
Is it your contention that anything you can't do on an office computer makes you into a serial killer?
Statistically, the most significant predictive factor in the backgrounds of serial killers and sadistic rapists isn't pornography; it's a strict religious upbringing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:20 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 24 of 111 (356687)
10-15-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 12:07 PM


Hello NJ:
Those that lightly browse through it [pornography] find themselves and their time devoted to ever-increasing bouts with it. Pornography, like cocaine or methamphetamines, is like a stimulant and considered by its honest adherents as highly addictive. It creates a strong physiological response in the viewer that almost certainly will become dulled from subsequent viewings. From the diminishment of "feeling" it could lead people into darker forms of pornography. And further down the path the individual is lead into depravity.
Looks like you have five assertions in there--can you back them up?
It doesn't mitigate the effects it exacerbates the frequency and turns sexuality into paraphiliac aberrations. There are numerous reports that marry pornography to a host of problems from psychosomatic to pyschophysiological.
Your first link to the wikipedia article on paraphilia isn't helpful except as a definition. It doesn't seem to support your argument.
The second link is to a partial abstract of an article. The final lines are:
quote:
In all four countries there is clear and undisputed evidence that during this period the availability of various forms of pictorial pornography including violent/dominant varieties (in the form of picture magazines, and films/videos used at home or shown in arcades or cinemas) has developed from extreme scarcity to relative abundance. If (violent) pornography causes rape, this exceptional development in the availability of (violent) pornography should definitely somehow influence the rape statistics. Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)
Can you show me how the abstract supports your argument?
Cheers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 1:56 PM Michael has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4006 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 25 of 111 (356693)
10-15-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Michael
10-15-2006 1:13 PM


Looks like you have five assertions in there--can you back them up?
no, he can't. what he's talking about is the arousal of the lymbic system. allegedly, every arousal of it results in a need for greater stimulation next time. this i guess is why married people eventually stop having sex since it no longer does anything and they'd eventually have to switch to erotic asphyxiation to get anything out of it and then we have dead married people.
anyways. my mom uses this argument. but then i ask why doesn't "normal" married christian sex cause this problem? no, only porn and oral sex start this slippery slope. although, i have to say. holding hands still drives me crazy and i've passed into depravity and mortal sin so i don't know what they're talking about.
it's the same question as "why don't all people who drink become alcoholics?" because drinking doesn't cause alcoholism, propensity to addiction does. i used to look at porn. i gave up on it. i like to watch them with someone, but it really just sits there and is usually much more ridiculous than it is arousing.
but then ask porn stars what they're sex life is at home. for most it's lights off, missionary. so what is it about watching porn that makes you a serial killer but being in it leads to sexual reductionism? do you think maybe it's because porn stars have a healthier idea of what sex is and they can separate the ridiculous staged stuff they make from reality?
Can you show me how the abstract supports your argument?
no, he can't. he didn't read that far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Michael, posted 10-15-2006 1:13 PM Michael has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 111 (356695)
10-15-2006 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2006 11:34 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
quote:
I doubt you could say that when visiting native american tribes or pacific islanders or tribes in the amazon who don't understand these religious views, and yet, maintain an understanding of sacredness in chastity.
don't just say things like this. prove it.
what about the pacific islanders in which the men and boys live in a central lodge and have sex with each other and only go home to their wives (who own their own homes) to impregnate them?
You criticize me for making bare assertions only to present an unsubstantiated claim of your own?
Among other books,Margaret Mead wrote "Coming of Age in Samoa. According to Mead, American children were subjected to "Puritan self-accusations" that crimped their libido's and left burdened by "guilt" and "maladjustment." (Very similar, if not identical, to what you espouse). Her life read like a Flapper-era pilot for Sex in the City with the sultry innuendos of her writings. Mead claimed that on Samoa sexual fulfillment was pinnacle to their lifestyle and that celibacy was a meaningless term, homosexuality was common, masturbation was universal, illigitimate births were no big deal, prostitution was harmless, and marriage and divorce were informal. It was hailed as a scientific classic the world over boasting some impressive sales that extended past her death 1973.
An New Zealand anthropologist by the name of Derek Freeman was entranced by her writings and resolved to visit Samoa for himself. Freeman admits that he greatly desired this lifestyle as a carefree society, free to frolick in ones own desires was appealing. But after years of research, he hesitantly concludes that "it had become apparent to me, after prolonged inquiry, that Mead's descriptions of Samoa were gravely defective in numerous ways that her account of the sexual mores of Samoans was in outright error." This coming from his book, "The Making and Unmasking of an Anthropological Myth," and his 1999 book, "The Fateful Hoaxing of Margaret Mead."
This is the type of yarn that is spun by the likes of Mead, Havelock Ellis, Alfred Kinsey, Margret Sanger, and host of others. Its a lie. Its an attempt to create their own society like that of ancient Greece and Rome where Vomitoriums expressed an gluttonous indulgence.
i'd wager that you have no idea what you're talking about and are spouting bullshit you heard in church somewhere. but that's just my guess.
All the churches that I've ever been to read from the Bible and give an exegesis on its extrapolations and meainings, not talk about specific members of modern society. So you lost that wager.
quote:
An interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is their penchant for pornography.
you know most serial killers' favourite ice cream is butter pecan? guess what mine is. oh shit! an interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is that they were abused as children. they seek to take back the power that was taken from them and express that in different ways. if it's not power they're seeking, generally, they're just insane. it's not because of the dopamine release and the need to have increased dopamine release everytime no matter what you or my mother say. why doesn't "normal" christian married sex create increased dopamine need? does god protect you from becoming serial killers?
Why doesn't normal "Christian sex", (whatever that is), increase Dopamine? As far as their insanity is concerned, certainly childhood abuse factors into that greatly. But it seems so obvious that just as you could easily place part of the blame on abuse, particularly sexual abuse, you could easily parallel pornography. You can't see that? Playboy turns into Penthouse, Penthouse turns into Hustler, and down, down, down, into the most shockingly depraved acts that actually refer to as, "sexual," still don't satisfy. All of a sudden we have the most squalid practices like defecating/urinating on people and violent sex somehow creating a sense of enjoyment.
you want sacredness in your sex? teach your children to respect themselves and others enough to admit and healthily express themselves and always use care and protection. teach them to ask about testing and teach them about how sex works. if it is open and honest and not dark, secret, and sinful, it doesn't cause these things. you do know that people lived in one bedroom houses until very recently, right? and children slept in the same room as their parents who were boinking, right? i'm not suggesting you do this. it might result in a healthy child in other situations, but not in this culture. but be honest and open with them. generally expression leads to sex play and not actual sex. in fact, most children engage in sex play on their own. of course we generally beat them for it and shame them and then they end up cold and dispassionate when we actually allow them to get married.
Its unhealthy to stiffle sexual emotions and pretend they don't exist. These extreme puritanical principles do nothing to abate the problem. It enhances it. I certainly would agree with you. No one says we have to live like that, so I find it utterly irrelevant that you bring it up as some sort of inflammatory accusation to further your case that pornography should be encouraged. You are now talking about two different things.
now, i'm willing to agree that much porn creates an artificial world in which men dominate. but i'd wager that it's because of the audience. the actual industry is run by women and probably the single most empowering industry there is.
Empowering? I find it ironic that in one instance people speak disparigingly about biblical principles as being misogynistic when it is unequivocally shown that pornography celibrates the degredation of the woman. And evidently we see that in two forms of Feminism, one branch viewing the porn industry as a facet of women's liberation, and the other branch viewing it as men abusing women's sexuality for their own cause,
but then i'm just a crazy liberal.
Aw, come on, don't be so hard on yourself. You're not as crazy liberal. You're just a liberal.

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 11:34 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 3:10 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 30 by nwr, posted 10-15-2006 3:22 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4006 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 111 (356700)
10-15-2006 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
You criticize me for making bare assertions only to present an unsubstantiated claim of your own?
i made mention of a specific example in papua new guinea i believe. it's kind of common knowledge to those who don't have their heads in uncomfortable places. you talk in broad sweeping strokes about thousands and thousands of people groups who have little to nothing in common.
This is the type of yarn that is spun by the likes of Mead, Havelock Ellis, Alfred Kinsey, Margret Sanger, and host of others. Its a lie. Its an attempt to create their own society like that of ancient Greece and Rome where Vomitoriums expressed an gluttonous indulgence.
there is no excuse for fabricated science. but one person's refutation of one other person does not give legitimate rise to the denouncement of an entire field of research.
Why doesn't normal "Christian sex", (whatever that is), increase Dopamine?
it does increase dopamine. i didn't say that it didn't. i asked why is it that for some reason "normal" christian married sex does not lead to the slippery slop of lymbic response.
But it seems so obvious that just as you could easily place part of the blame on abuse, particularly sexual abuse, you could easily parallel pornography.
but pornography isn't sexual abuse.
Empowering? I find it ironic that in one instance people speak disparigingly about biblical principles as being misogynistic when it is unequivocally shown that pornography celibrates the degredation of the woman. And evidently we see that in two forms of Feminism, one branch viewing the porn industry as a facet of women's liberation, and the other branch viewing it as men abusing women's sexuality for their own cause,
did you actually read what i wrote? i said that much of mainstream porn places women in a submissive and denegrated role. however, the reality of the porn industry is very different. it is controlled by women and women do in porn what they want. however, they create a product that is desired by the populace. it's not porn that denegrates women, it's men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 2:38 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 111 (356701)
10-15-2006 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2006 12:27 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
i'm only going to say this once, and you had better drop it after.
porn store windows are blacked out because it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to be provided with these images. the blacking out of windows is how the stores prevent themselves from getting shut down (it's actually probably required by law). it's not because they're ashamed, it's because it's the law. also, this is why many stores check id when you enter.
Uh-huh, and the people going thru back entrance? The men that hide it from their wives? The women that hide from their husbands? The company and EvC policy of no pornography is all because it doesn't illicit some level of shame or embarassment?

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 12:27 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2006 3:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 111 (356705)
10-15-2006 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by crashfrog
10-15-2006 12:52 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
I work for the Federal government, and I can tell you that, in addition to being pornography, gambling isn't allowed on the office computers either. It's an exactly equal offense.
The question is why its an offense to begin with. If sex is natural, shouldn't pornography? Obviously there is a reason for it, right? Bringing up gambling to derail my premise doesn't work because porn is outlawed on gov't and most companies for a reason. So why do you suppose that it?
Is it your contention that anything you can't do on an office computer makes you into a serial killer?
No, my contention is that all serial killers had/have a serious problem with porn.
Statistically, the most significant predictive factor in the backgrounds of serial killers and sadistic rapists isn't pornography; it's a strict religious upbringing.
No, it seems to be a unhealthy mix of both. Some of those men and women were subjected to a puritanical upbringing and when pornography was introduced, it created this polarity within them. Ed Gein, for instance, wore provocative clothing and engaged in sexual acts in front of her son, all while espousing puritan rules for him. Its no wonder how he arrived at his disposition.

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 10-15-2006 12:52 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 10-15-2006 6:02 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 30 of 111 (356706)
10-15-2006 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
An New Zealand anthropologist by the name of Derek Freeman was entranced by her writings and resolved to visit Samoa for himself.
Note that Freeman has come into considerable criticism himself over this work.

Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 2:38 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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 Message 32 by Chiroptera, posted 10-15-2006 3:29 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
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