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Author Topic:   First Openly Gay Congressman dies... hero or villain?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4007 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 46 of 111 (356816)
10-16-2006 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 2:33 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Are you suggesting that no pagan would ever be upset that their significant other is viewing pornography?
no. only for fundies is thought precursor to action.
I guess the "my body, my choice" mantra only applies to women.
if you're in the millitary, it's not your body. your body is a government weapon. i thought you knew that when you signed on the line there?
Women are ashamed of their vaginas and vulvas??? (Is there something you wanna share? Something traumatic, perhaps? Maybe you just need a good hug). I'm not sure that I've ever met a woman that was ashamed of their vaginas? Some have expressed that its unattractive because of extended labias and whatnot, but not shame.
clearly i'm not, but many are, yes.
and why would i want to share anything about my vulva with you?
Its pretty annoying.
sucks. you know what's annoying? people who try to make their crazed morals part of "natural law" so they have an excuse to stick their noses into the rest of our lives.
but, i'm a christian and no one confuses me with those people. funny thing that.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 2:33 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 10:47 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 111 (356843)
10-16-2006 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by macaroniandcheese
10-16-2006 7:43 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
quote:
Are you suggesting that no pagan would ever be upset that their significant other is viewing pornography?
no. only for fundies is thought precursor to action.
Is that a tacit way of saying that you act impusively without thinking before you act? It might explain some things.
if you're in the millitary, it's not your body. your body is a government weapon. i thought you knew that when you signed on the line there?
Right... I guess I forgot that I was dispensable property of Uncle Slam.
quote:
Women are ashamed of their vaginas and vulvas??? (Is there something you wanna share? Something traumatic, perhaps? Maybe you just need a good hug). I'm not sure that I've ever met a woman that was ashamed of their vaginas? Some have expressed that its unattractive because of extended labias and whatnot, but not shame.
clearly i'm not, but many are, yes.
What do you think the frequency of self-hatred for vulvas are?
and why would i want to share anything about my vulva with you?
Not your vulva, your feelings. I don't think my wife would appreciate you sharing your vulva with me. But then again, she is just a crazy Christian.
sucks. you know what's annoying? people who try to make their crazed morals part of "natural law" so they have an excuse to stick their noses into the rest of our lives. but, i'm a christian and no one confuses me with those people. funny thing that.
Or how about people that use nature as a revolving excuse for their behavior instead of actually addressing the situation. That's pretty annoying too, eh.

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-16-2006 7:43 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-16-2006 1:05 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 10-16-2006 3:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4007 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 48 of 111 (356864)
10-16-2006 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 10:47 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Is that a tacit way of saying that you act impusively without thinking before you act? It might explain some things.
no, that is my way of saying i don't do everything i think about.
Not your vulva, your feelings.
yes, why would i want to share any of my feelings about my vulva with you?
Or how about people that use nature as a revolving excuse for their behavior instead of actually addressing the situation.
i wouldn't know what that's like. i don't blame any "sin nature" for my mistakes, and i don't blame "god's will" for my triumphs. i own it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 10:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 111 (356869)
10-16-2006 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by macaroniandcheese
10-16-2006 1:05 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
quote:
Is that a tacit way of saying that you act impusively without thinking before you act? It might explain some things.
no, that is my way of saying i don't do everything i think about.
I should hope not.
quote:
Not your vulva, your feelings.
yes, why would i want to share any of my feelings about my vulva with you?
You've already offered that unsolicited information.
quote:
Or how about people that use nature as a revolving excuse for their behavior instead of actually addressing the situation.
i wouldn't know what that's like. i don't blame any "sin nature" for my mistakes, and i don't blame "god's will" for my triumphs. i own it all.
Who said anything about "sin nature?" I was only speaking about how certain people blame their predilictions on nature, as if nature was the culprit who gave them the penchant for eating feces or molesting small children, or what have you.

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 50 of 111 (356889)
10-16-2006 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 10:47 AM


Stubbs
NJ writes:
Or how about people that use nature as a revolving excuse for their behavior instead of actually addressing the situation. That's pretty annoying too, eh.
We are drifting way off topic.
holmes writes:
So is this guy(Stubbs} a hero, or a villain? Should he be celebrated, or his case reinspected in light of the Foley incident, and what were once considered contributions viewed with the same scorn shown to Foley?
Bottem line: Leave the pages alone. How hard can that be?
Nature is no excuse for behavior.
Is it natural to be a murderer, for example??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 10:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 3:53 PM Phat has not replied
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 111 (356894)
10-16-2006 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
10-16-2006 3:25 PM


Re: Stubbs
We are drifting way off topic.
Throw me a lifeline and haul me to shore.
Bottem line: Leave the pages alone. How hard can that be?
Fair enough.
Nature is no excuse for behavior.
And that's all I was getting at.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 52 of 111 (356945)
10-16-2006 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 7:54 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
What is the reason why people can't view porn at their work?
Because, like gambling, it's a waste of company time.
Plus, porn and gambling sites are notorious sources for malware, so they introduce security issues.
Serial killers have a problem with porn.
Asserted but not proven. Serial killers aren't called "serial killers" because they look at porn; the problem they have that they are named after is the fact that they kill people (serially, that is, one after another.)
And without exception, without question, every one of them was deeply involved in pornography.
And involved in food, involved in breathing. Every one of those guys was in prison, too. Does prison create serial killers?
It's guilt by association, NJ. Serial killers do something, therefore that something "creates" serial killers.
It's certainly not anything an intelligent person should mistake for a real argument.
The FBI, among other premiere law enforment agencies, show unequivocially what Bundy said in plain English.
The position of the FBI is most definately not that pornography creates serial killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 7:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 11:19 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 111 (356963)
10-16-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by crashfrog
10-16-2006 8:53 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Because, like gambling, it's a waste of company time.
So is checking your email but your unlikely to get fired over that unless you habitually do it even after being warned to stop. Porn is different. Why is that?
Plus, porn and gambling sites are notorious sources for malware, so they introduce security issues.
Yeah, they won't let you look at porn because of spyware . And as for viruses, any decent-sized company, especially the US gov't, is going to have some pretty impressive firewalls to combat that.
That isn't the reason why its not allowed.
Asserted but not proven. Serial killers aren't called "serial killers" because they look at porn; the problem they have that they are named after is the fact that they kill people (serially, that is, one after another.)
Every home searched after a serial killer is finally caught, yields mounds of pornographic material-- particularly disturbing masochistic porn and in excess of what any reasonable person might consider an average amount.
And involved in food, involved in breathing. Every one of those guys was in prison, too. Does prison create serial killers?
They're in prison because they are serial killers, not the other way around. As for breathing/eating that's just an insuperable diversionary tactic. With that line of thinking you might make a fine defense attorney one day. Any ACLU aspirations?
It's guilt by association, NJ. Serial killers do something, therefore that something "creates" serial killers.
What does that mean?
The position of the FBI is most definately not that pornography creates serial killers.
I didn't say that if you look at porn you are auotmatically going to be a serial killer. What I said was that virtually every serial killer is known to be deeply involved in pornography. As well, any FBI profiler would look at this factor as a serious and considerable variable when trying to establish patterns.
I think too many people are getting offended at non-offensive things. I think pornography is wrong at the heart of it all and I'm entitled to that opinion. I think there are parallels and things that extend past beyond coincidence as far as porn and behavior is concerned. But I've already stated that its not beyond me why anyone watches porn. Its enjoyable. But I see it in the same vein as drugs. Drugs are enjoyable and offer the user a high. But we all know that drugs have consequences. We also know that the first time you use drugs, you're not going to become some strung-out junky. Its a slow process. I feel the same about pornography. Its not like if Timmy was sneaking around in his parents room and he found a magazine and saw one two boobs that little Timmy would be lost forever. But if Timmy grew up continuing in that vein, he runs the risk of fracturing his pysche in a number of ways
Its like any addiction. Its the thing you hate to love, and the thing you love to hate. You hate it but not enough to actually stop yourself. I'm sure all of us have been down that path with something at some point in our lives. Whether its nicotene, or alcohol, or infidelity, or even the internet. What would consecrate pornography from any one of those addictions?

"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 10-16-2006 8:53 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ReverendDG, posted 10-17-2006 1:37 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 10-17-2006 9:04 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 54 of 111 (356969)
10-17-2006 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 9:10 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
So, are you offended that I would find myself in disagreement with porn because you like it?
where the hell did i say this? i said your over-generization is insulting to many people and that includes me, what fucking right do you have saying this?
LOL! I can't argue with that. It isn't the action of porn, its what happens to the psyche that matters
yes and the porn reflects the problems they have by what they chose, just like anything else in life
Its when something is abused for ill-gotten purposes that somnething good can be manipulated into something bad. So, please, with sugar-on-top, stop trying to derail my argument by distorting what I've been saying.
when you say porn is the root of the sickness what am i suppose to think?
Um, minors go to porn sites without their parents permission. Its called a 'disclaimer.' And cars, cameras, zebras, or telephones aren't the 'focus' of EvC either, but you don't see the Admin's fussing about that. So, again, if pornography is really no big deal, why outlaw it from this site, why ban it from children's eyes, why is it taboo at all across the globe, irrespective of culture of religious affiliations? Could it be that there really is an innate sense, perhaps instituted by God, perhaps not, that its 'wrong' to abuse one's own sexuality?
well duh our culture says its bad, that doesn't make it inherently bad now does it? whether minors see porn is rather irrelvent isn't it?
now being considered a provider of porn is looked down on by a lot of people and percy would delete things if it caused more noise than signel, never been an admin to a website have you?
Porn is just one avenue of the larger problem. Sexual immorality is really what's at heart. And that has been with us since the beginning.
sigh, this is meaningless, we can't even agree on what is moral or even what is immoral
Everything! Its just what I've been saying. People that watch porn run the risk of growing calloused to it and so go from soft material to hard material. Eventually, it synthesizes into bizarre fetishes that should never be sexual to begin with-- unless of course you find it sexually appealing to be defecated on. Pshhh.
wow thanks for that over-generalization of people you never met in your life, didn't christ say not to judge others?
Ah yes... Just give a confused teenager some porn and that'll straighten him out. Forget sports or outdoor activities, just stimulate them sexually so they won't hurt people. Fascinating thesis.
oh yes because thats what i said! please, i said people already have problems to begin with that porn has nothing to do with, but people blame it as the sole cause, i said that it is at least pragmaticly safer than a psychologically damaged person hurting others, its like the D&D scare of the 80's, its easy to blame something that they hate already than to realize the person needed help and this was just a diversion they had.
if you think that what i quoted was what i meant, then you have some pyschosis you need to work out yourself
No it doesn't, it says that violent and non-violent pornography have no disparity when it comes to rape. What does reflect is that rapists are into porn. Make the connection.
are you blind or just willfully ignorent? it says it right there, in black and white
This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape.
if you read the whole thing theres no evidence that porn causes anyone to feel like raping anyone
becides its not about sex its about causing fear and dominince in people
you never commented on the fact that a person can do sick things without porn or anything like porn, so claiming porn is the cause is stupid and unfounded, its a scapegoat to make people feel better

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 9:10 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 55 of 111 (356970)
10-17-2006 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
10-16-2006 3:25 PM


Re: Stubbs
Nature is no excuse for behavior.
it isn't an excuse its a factor to why people do things
Is it natural to be a murderer, for example??
no being a murderer isn't part of nature anymore than wearing clothing is
being pyschotic is part of the persons nature, being socialpathic is natural is
being insane is natural
being a murderer is an act of a damaged or natural pyschological state
why do you think they try to treat insane people before they execute them?
having sex with underage children is wrong ethicly if you happen to be thier boss, but our society believes that children should be protected at all costs anyway so, anything done to children is wrong

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 10-16-2006 3:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 56 of 111 (356972)
10-17-2006 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 11:19 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
So is checking your email but your unlikely to get fired over that unless you habitually do it even after being warned to stop. Porn is different. Why is that?
because not everyone agrees about porn maybe? that businesses want an image that doesn't offend those that don't like porn? i think you can come up with an answer
Yeah, they won't let you look at porn because of spyware . And as for viruses, any decent-sized company, especially the US gov't, is going to have some pretty impressive firewalls to combat that.
hmm, this is a reason, they do have malware that spread viruses, this is also why they block warez sites and pirating sites
Every home searched after a serial killer is finally caught, yields mounds of pornographic material-- particularly disturbing masochistic porn and in excess of what any reasonable person might consider an average amount.
yes and so what? as i said corrolation is not causation, claiming the cause is porn is not supported by anything, there is no evidence that viewing porn even exstreme violent porn causes the viewer to go out and harm someone else. even the goverment says there isn't any evidence
What does that mean?
it means, you find porn in the killers house, that means that porn makes people became killers. its the classic "this person is really hated, they do , therefor made them do it"
its like claiming heavy metal turns people into satanists, because satanists listen to heavy metal.
I didn't say that if you look at porn you are auotmatically going to be a serial killer. What I said was that virtually every serial killer is known to be deeply involved in pornography. As well, any FBI profiler would look at this factor as a serious and considerable variable when trying to establish patterns.
yes they did look at it and found its not true. so therefor you can stop making the corrolation, its unfounded according to the FBI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 11:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 10-17-2006 7:39 AM ReverendDG has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 57 of 111 (357001)
10-17-2006 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by ReverendDG
10-17-2006 1:37 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
DG writes:
corrolation is not causation, claiming the cause is porn is not supported by anything, there is no evidence that viewing porn even exstreme violent porn causes the viewer to go out and harm someone else. even the goverment says there isn't any evidence
Id like to see the source on this! Porn is not some harmless little fantasy pastime. Everything that is thought about excessively changes a person.
The only people who view porn as harmless are those who either use it or stand to profit from it in some way.
DG writes:
they did look at it and found its not true. so therefor you can stop making the corrolation, its unfounded according to the FBI
Again, we need a source. Im googling FBI+Porn now as we speak.
Edited by Phat, : add

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 58 of 111 (357012)
10-17-2006 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 11:19 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
So is checking your email
Not really. There's a legitimate business reason to check your email in a world where business can be done through email. I check my email all the time at work for exactly that reason - it's one of the ways that I can be contacted for work reasons.
Porn is different. Why is that?
You aren't listening. It's not different; that's the point. It's not porn; it's porn and gambling. Why the hard-on about gambling too if it's just about it being inherently wrong to look at nudie pics?
That isn't the reason why its not allowed.
Gosh, genius, I'm glad you're here to tell me these things. I mean I only manage the office's computers single-handedly, and all; what could I possibly know about the reasons the USDA doesn't want us to look at porn and gambling?
Every home searched after a serial killer is finally caught, yields mounds of pornographic material--
And a refrigerator full of food. Sometimes a computer.
Do computers make people be serial killers?
Any ACLU aspirations?
...what? Non sequiter much? Who said anything about the ACLU?
What does that mean?
What does what mean? I thought I wrote a perfectly clear statement in English. You're the one who's having trouble staying on-topic, staying clear. What on Earth does the ACLU have to do with anything?
What I said was that virtually every serial killer is known to be deeply involved in pornography.
And food as well. That doesn't impeach food as a cause of serial killers. Why would it impeach porn?
There's a three-pronged test that purports to be predictive of serial killers, looking at childhood behaviors (called the MacDonald test):
1) Bed-wetting
2) Animal abuse
3) Pyromania
I don't see "looking at porn" on there, do you? Not even the FBI considers porn viewing predictive of sociopathy.
But I see it in the same vein as drugs. Drugs are enjoyable and offer the user a high. But we all know that drugs have consequences. We also know that the first time you use drugs, you're not going to become some strung-out junky. Its a slow process.
Really? Do you drink soft drinks, junkie? Caffiene is a drug too, you know. I guess we can expect to find you passed out in a doorway with a needle in your arm some day, right? I mean it's all a "slow process", right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 11:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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 Message 59 by arachnophilia, posted 10-17-2006 9:12 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 59 of 111 (357015)
10-17-2006 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by crashfrog
10-17-2006 9:04 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
There's a three-pronged test that purports to be predictive of serial killers, looking at childhood behaviors (called the MacDonald test):
1) Bed-wetting
2) Animal abuse
3) Pyromania
I don't see "looking at porn" on there, do you? Not even the FBI considers porn viewing predictive of sociopathy.
i hate to spell it out again, but it's precisely because possession or viewing of pornography simply lacks predictive power. since maybe 95% of the population has owned of viewed pornography at some time in their lives, yes every serial killer probably has porn. but so do hundreds of thousands of people who are not murderers.
meaning there's not even an association -- and even if there were an association, we couldn't say it has a causal effect. supposing that only serial killers looked at pornography (and ignoring the fact there would be a lot of serial killers in this model), the two might be symptoms of some larger problem or other cause. or it might be that the people who kill many people are simply less concerned about the rules of society, and thus have no qualms at looking at something society rejects.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 10-17-2006 9:04 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 60 of 111 (357025)
10-17-2006 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
10-17-2006 7:39 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
The only people who view porn as harmless are those who either use it or stand to profit from it in some way
I find this statement quite interesting...
At first glance, one would think that those who view porn would have some idea as to whether or not it harms their lives at all; however anecdotal this evidence might be...
Also, i'm not sure anyone has said (caveat: didn't read whole thread yet) that porn is harmless. They're saying it isn't necessarily harmful in the context that it has been espoused as being harmful.
Off the top of my head, i can't think of anything that is completely innocuous.

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

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