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Author Topic:   Innevitable Armageddon (theory)
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 40 (493466)
01-08-2009 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by PaulK
01-08-2009 1:54 PM


Re: Prophecy Armageddon
PaulK writes:

Jesus says no such thing in Mark 11 - or Mark 13, which you probably meant. Nor does he in the parallel passages in Matthew 24.

I stand corrected that Luke was the only one who recorded the specific prophecy.

The three gospels were generally synoptic relative to Jesus's prophecy. In order to get all of the data, the Biblical scholar assembles all of the data to get the whole prophecy.

That Jesus made the prophecy is the important thing. How many writers recorded each detail is not relevant to the significance of the details in the prophecy.

PaulK writes:

The Revelation doesn't predict "numbers or marks for global monetary[sic]". Most of the rest is pretty dodgy too,

Sigh.

And he causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond , to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead: And that NO MAN might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER of his name."
Revelation 13:16, 17.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by PaulK, posted 01-08-2009 1:54 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2009 12:16 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 33 by PaulK, posted 01-09-2009 1:29 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 32 of 40 (493467)
01-09-2009 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Buzsaw
01-08-2009 11:59 PM


Re: Prophecy???
It does not pay a prophet to be too specific.

L. Sprague de Camp


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Buzsaw, posted 01-08-2009 11:59 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 01-09-2009 10:00 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15083
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 33 of 40 (493474)
01-09-2009 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Buzsaw
01-08-2009 11:59 PM


Re: Prophecy Armageddon
quote:

The three gospels were generally synoptic relative to Jesus's prophecy. In order to get all of the data, the Biblical scholar assembles all of the data to get the whole prophecy.

A real Biblical scholar would note that Mark and Matthew are almost identical and that Luke's version is significantly different. He would not try to construct his own version by assembling the bits that he liked. In fact he might well throw out Luke's version altogether.

quote:

That Jesus made the prophecy is the important thing. How many writers recorded each detail is not relevant to the significance of the details in the prophecy.

The QUESTION of whether Jesus made that particular prophecy is important. However it must be said that it is likely that he did not for reasons that I have given in earlier discussions.

quote:

PaulK writes:

The Revelation doesn't predict "numbers or marks for global monetary[sic]". Most of the rest is pretty dodgy too,

Sigh.

And he causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond , to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead: And that NO MAN might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER of his name."
Revelation 13:16, 17.

So nowhere does it say that this alleged system is global or that the marks are used as money.

Thanks for proving my point !

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Buzsaw, posted 01-08-2009 11:59 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Buzsaw, posted 01-09-2009 9:51 AM PaulK has responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 40 (493533)
01-09-2009 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by PaulK
01-09-2009 1:29 AM


Re: Futile Dialog
PaulK writes:

Buzsaw writes:

And he causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond , to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead: And that NO MAN might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER of his name."

Revelation 13:16, 17.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So nowhere does it say that this alleged system is global or that the marks are used as money.
Thanks for proving my point !

No, Paul, the only thing this exchange reveals is how far from reality and the obvious you reach for the sake of debating your nonsensical position. Relative to anything Biblical, rational dialog with you is impossible.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by PaulK, posted 01-09-2009 1:29 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by PaulK, posted 01-09-2009 1:31 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 40 (493534)
01-09-2009 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
01-09-2009 12:16 AM


Re: Prophecy???
Coyote writes:

It does not pay a prophet to be too specific.

L. Sprague de Camp

Sprague's advice works well for folks like you, Coyote, who's drive is to undermine the specificity of the phenomenal scriptural prophecies of the Bible which prove it's divinity and authority.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 01-09-2009 12:16 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15083
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 36 of 40 (493563)
01-09-2009 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Buzsaw
01-09-2009 9:51 AM


Re: Futile Dialog
quote:

No, Paul, the only thing this exchange reveals is how far from reality and the obvious you reach for the sake of debating your nonsensical position. Relative to anything Biblical, rational dialog with you is impossible.

No, Buz the problem you have in debating me is that I keep proving you wrong. Now I will agree that your position on this passage is better than usual - relying merely on reading more into it than is there rather than - for instance - outright rejecting it or inventing grammatical rules or twisting it to the point where it becomes idiotic.

But lets try to discuss this passage rationally.

Do you agree that the verses make no explicit reference to the currency used ?

Do you agree that the passage makes no explicit reference to how the mark relates to the "inability" to buy and sell ?

Do you agree that nowhere in Revelation is there any statement that the mark includes any personal identification or financial information relating to the individual bearing it ? (If you disagree with this last, please refer to and quote the verse or verses that say so).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Buzsaw, posted 01-09-2009 9:51 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 01-09-2009 10:00 PM PaulK has responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 40 (493624)
01-09-2009 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by PaulK
01-09-2009 1:31 PM


Re: Futile Dialog
PaulK writes:

Do you agree that the passage makes no explicit reference to how the mark relates to the "inability" to buy and sell ?

PaulK, the reality is that modern monetary systems are emerging into marks and numbers and that personal monetary security requires more safety from identity theft etc. Computer chips are already being implanted into animals etc etc for ID purposes, etc

The fact that there are other corroborating end time fulfillments to prophecy, the required marks/numbers of the beast of Revelation 13 become relevant. In order to globally enforce such a regime, the beast global regime would need some methodology for enforcement of such a plan. To begin with, such a regime must needs be global for fulfillment and enforcement, (abe: thus requiring modern electronic technology.)

Edited by Buzsaw, : Improve phraseology

Edited by Buzsaw, : Added clarity as noted.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by PaulK, posted 01-09-2009 1:31 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 01-10-2009 4:24 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15083
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 38 of 40 (493645)
01-10-2009 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
01-09-2009 10:00 PM


Re: Futile Dialog
Since you decline to actually discuss what Revelation really says it seems that my points there are accurate.

quote:

PaulK, the reality is that modern monetary systems are emerging into marks and numbers and that personal monetary security requires more safety from identity theft etc. Computer chips are already being implanted into animals etc etc for ID purposes, etc

The REALITY is that there is no proposed system that resembles the marks mentioned in the Revelation. Implanted chips are very different! For humans the main line of approach that is being investigated at the moment seems to be biometrics, which involves NO marks. Nor is it even plausible that the features of the marks mentioned in the Bible would be of any real significance to any system that might be developed.

quote:

The fact that there are other corroborating end time fulfillments to prophecy, the required marks/numbers of the beast of Revelation 13 become relevant. In order to globally enforce such a regime, the beast global regime would need some methodology for enforcement of such a plan. To begin with, such a regime must needs be global for fulfillment and enforcement, (abe: thus requiring modern electronic technology.)

The significance of the misrepresentation of Revelation is to create the illusion that it refers to our near future. In reality what Revelation describes is far closer to brands or tattoos that could easily be implemented at the time it was written. No modern technology required.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 01-09-2009 10:00 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 01-10-2009 3:14 PM PaulK has responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 40 (493750)
01-10-2009 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by PaulK
01-10-2009 4:24 AM


Re: Think Emerging System.
The REALITY is that there is no proposed system

Read what I said. I did not say proposed system. I said, modern monetary systems are emerging into marks and numbers.. For over 50 years of my life it was not possible to pay for my gasoline at the pump without cash and no attentant at hand. The system now records a number which effects a payment for the gasoline. That is an emergence of a cashless monetary system. It's not there quite yet but it's emerging. Get the drift, Paul?

Now, credit card theft and ID theft is an ever increasing problem. Solution: Implant the ID mark/number or combination thereof in a body part to effect the transaction. Savvy?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 01-10-2009 4:24 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 01-10-2009 4:51 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15083
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 40 of 40 (493762)
01-10-2009 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
01-10-2009 3:14 PM


Re: Think Emerging System.
quote:

Read what I said. I did not say proposed system. I said, modern monetary systems are emerging into marks and numbers..

If there is not even a proposed system that is anything like what you suggest then it is not going to happen any time soon. If ever.

quote:

Now, credit card theft and ID theft is an ever increasing problem. Solution: Implant the ID mark/number or combination thereof in a body part to effect the transaction. Savvy?

Or use distinctive biological feattures of the person concerned to verify their identity - which is more likely given the present direction of research. Of course, even chip implants are nothing like the Biblical "Mark of the Beast". It is not even a plausible part of any global e-money system (itself, many decades away at the least).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 01-10-2009 3:14 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
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