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Author
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Topic: I want one good reason that being gay is ok
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Rrhain
Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: 05-03-2003
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crashfrog responds to me:
quote:
I mean, if you have to have n dollars to be gay and have a child, the set of all people with n dollars has a higher number of dollars, on average, then the set of all people with any number of dollars, if n is greater than zero. Right?
Yes, but not necessarily significantly so. If the number of people who engage in high-cost methods of having children is low, the difference may not be able to overcome the standard deviation. Surrogacy is expensive. Implantation is expensive. Sperm donation isn't that expensive. Adoption isn't that expensive. But the expense is not all that great when it comes to the question of long-term financial status. Couples motivated to have a child can scrape together the $10,000 for an implantation attempt. As far as earning potential goes over the course of years, $10,000 isn't going to make that much of a difference. It's nothing to sneeze at, definitely, but it isn't the grand equalizer, either. And, of course, there's all the gay people who have children the old-fashioned way.
Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 465 by crashfrog, posted 07-14-2004 3:11 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 467 of 510 (124407)
07-14-2004 4:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 466 by Rrhain
07-14-2004 4:44 AM
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Gotcha.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 466 by Rrhain, posted 07-14-2004 4:44 AM | | Rrhain has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6050 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 468 of 510 (124607)
07-15-2004 1:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 432 by riVeRraT
07-12-2004 5:20 PM
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Re: moral purpose and birth control
I am also a hypocrite, because I have had a vascectomy. I did this before I was saved. Well, by your logic, you shouldn't have had sex since you were saved, because that would involve "spilling of seed", and thus not have "moral purpose". Since reproductive capability and the avoidance of seed-spilling are key to giving sex moral purpose, any sex you have had since you were saved would be equivalent to homosexual sex.
I have 5 children, and cannot afford to raise anymore. My work is done here. What about all of the people, for whatever reason, cannot "afford" to raise any children? Whether it be financial, psychological, or other reasons, some people are not ready, willing, or "equipped" to have any children. Why is it okay for one person to stop at five children, and not okay for another to produce none? Many people do their "work" in other ways that do not involve child-production (many religious leaders and devotees come to mind). Perhaps it is time to rethink procreation as the root of sexual moral purpose in the eyes of God, and that making babies is doing God's work.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 432 by riVeRraT, posted 07-12-2004 5:20 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 469 by jar, posted 07-15-2004 1:22 AM | | pink sasquatch has not replied | | | Message 479 by purpledawn, posted 07-20-2004 9:33 PM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Every Sperm is Sacred
There are Jews in the world, there are Buddhists,
there are Hindus and Mormons and then
there are those that follow Mohammed -but-
I've never been one of them.
I am a Roman Catholic
and have been since before I was born,
and the one thing they say about Catholics is
they'll take you as soon as you're warm.
You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on, you're
a Catholic the moment dad came
...Because...
Every sperm is sacred,
every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate. (2x)
Let the heathens spill theirs,
on the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
each sperm that can't be found.
Every sperm is wanted,
every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed,
in your neighborhood.
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
spill theirs just anywhere
but God loves those who treat their
semen with more care.
(misc choruses)
Every sperm is useful,
every sperm is fine.
God needs everybodies,
mine, and mine, and mine.
Let the pagans spill theirs
on mountain hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
each sperm that's spilled in vain.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6050 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 470 of 510 (124612)
07-15-2004 1:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 433 by riVeRraT
07-12-2004 5:22 PM
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Re: advice to riverrat - for what it's worth...
I hear ya bro, believe me they are my freinds, and we talk about this openly.
Its my right to feel this way. You are absolutely correct that it's your right to feel any way you want. That doesn't mean that the way you feel is right, any more than it is right that one person discriminates against another for their religion, or the color of their skin. Also, we must have very different definitions of what it means to be a "friend". Friends accept and love each other - from what you've posted in this thread you harbor too much bigotry to allow true love and acceptance of homosexuals.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 433 by riVeRraT, posted 07-12-2004 5:22 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Re: Yea! them too
quote:
i always had the impression it meant being of nature. so the way animals do it = natural.
I just got back off vacation. Alaska was beautiful!!! Anyway, I listened to a Christian speaker a few days ago and his talk made me think of this discussion. He said that natural is to do what comes naturally, but that God doesn't want us to do what comes naturally. So if Christians consider homosexuality to be unnatural, then they aren't doing what comes naturally, so homosexuality should be acceptable. Wouldn't you think?
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Yea! them too
a good point.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 471 by purpledawn, posted 07-19-2004 1:36 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Glordag
Inactive Member
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Re: Yea! them too
A good point, indeed. Unless, of course, they argue that we are supposed to do everything natural. At this point, I suppose we should all go out and rape, kill, steal, run around naked, and just be savages in general. Reminds me of how many Christians seem to view those who don't belong to a specific organized religion. As they often put it (to me, at least), "so, how do you have any morals at all if you aren't religious?".
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 471 by purpledawn, posted 07-19-2004 1:36 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 474 of 510 (125918)
07-20-2004 11:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 473 by Glordag
07-20-2004 5:31 AM
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Re: Yea! them too
As they often put it (to me, at least), "so, how do you have any morals at all if you aren't religious?". I usually just tell them something like, "well clearly, I must not have any. So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find a puppy, a jar of vaseline, and a slightly smaller puppy."
"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief. And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears" -Beck
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 473 by Glordag, posted 07-20-2004 5:31 AM | | Glordag has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 504 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 475 of 510 (125936)
07-20-2004 1:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 473 by Glordag
07-20-2004 5:31 AM
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Re: Yea! them too
Glordag writes: Reminds me of how many Christians seem to view those who don't belong to a specific organized religion. As they often put it (to me, at least), "so, how do you have any morals at all if you aren't religious?".
One time, in a debate at my school, it somehow came out that I was going to church every sunday even though I was an atheist. By the way, the reason the attention on me was because I was president of the student philosophy club back then. Anyhow, they asked me what was my point for going to church at all even though I was an atheist, and I told them that my parents made me promise because my parents knew I keep my promises no matter what. The christian fundies that were there were so surprised. They were like, "you keep your promises??" Unfortunately, I have to go to church every sunday until I'm 30  . That was the promise.
The Laminator
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 473 by Glordag, posted 07-20-2004 5:31 AM | | Glordag has not replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Message 476 of 510 (126065)
07-20-2004 8:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 354 by riVeRraT
07-09-2004 7:21 AM
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Re: everyone suck toes with moral purpose!
Where does God say men are not to spill or waste sperm?
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 354 by riVeRraT, posted 07-09-2004 7:21 AM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 477 by Coragyps, posted 07-20-2004 8:28 PM | | purpledawn has replied |
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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Re: everyone suck toes with moral purpose!
It's an extrapolation from the story of Onan in Genesis 38. He was told by Judah to go impregnate his dead (smitten by JHWH) brother, but instead he "spilled his seed upon the ground." So he, too, was smitten plumb to death.
The passage reads like Onan was practicing coitus interruptus and his failure to fertilize his sister-in-law was what irritated the Big Guy, but preachers of 100+ years ago claimed that any sort of spillage was smitable. (Usually, you just went blind and grew hair on your palms for whackin' it in the 1800's - getting smote had somehow become diluted.)
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Message 478 of 510 (126082)
07-20-2004 9:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 477 by Coragyps
07-20-2004 8:28 PM
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Re: everyone suck toes with moral purpose!
I wondered if that was the story. So really the man was punished for disobedience as opposed to spillage. Spillage was just the means by which he carried out his disobedience. If that is it, then God didn't make any specific ruling on spillage. It's just extrapolation by men. Interesting.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 477 by Coragyps, posted 07-20-2004 8:28 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Re: moral purpose and birth control
quote:
Well, by your logic, you shouldn't have had sex since you were saved, because that would involve "spilling of seed", and thus not have "moral purpose".
Doesn't a vascectomy stop the flow of seed? So he has nothing to spill, it is blocked. Does God have a problem with "seed blockage" as opposed to "spillage"?
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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SkepticToAll
Inactive Member
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Message 480 of 510 (126155)
07-21-2004 2:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
07-02-2004 10:06 PM
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Sad but true
quote:
1. Gay men tend to molest male children far more than straights.
True! In fact even in the Catholic church the sad truth is that the molesters are GAY priests not straight priests. It is homsexuality not chastity that was the reason many boys were molested.
quote:
Gays insist on special treatment and rights which go against the morm of the natural since history has been recorded.
Again true. I believe they have the right to do what they want but 'special' rights? And people should have the right to call them 'fags' - its a free speech issue.
quote:
Gays should understand that their lifestyle is repulsive to those who are sexually natural.
Naturally!
quote:
It is not natural to be gay. Whether one is evo or creo, the organs of the body were made for a male/female relationship.
True, and animals generally only engage in homsexual behavior when they are in zoos and in a similarly stressfull situation (see Desmond Morris initial work on this. )
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2004 10:06 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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