|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: To fund or not to fund - Are some science projects worth pursuing? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
As cavediver has pointed out, there are very very few people on the planet who can even come close to understanding what is going on in the search for extra universes and strings created only by the evidence of imagination ... How much should we spend on such short odds? We have to spend billions based on the fantasies of 5 people? There aren't a great number of people who really understand how electricity works. I myself don't understand quantum electrodynamics. The utility of a discovery is not measured by the number of people who know how it works, but by the number of people who can make use of it. If the folks at CERN could one day parlay their discoveries into (for example) a cheap and effective form of anti-gravity, then we'd all profit even if there were only five people in the world who really understand how it works.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
It is possible that it is Bs
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
haha i have been looking at the prices lol peg 100$plank 1000$ beam 5000$ Lol i dunno what kind of wood they are building it out of but to compare some prices. For a plank or any of them to span the whole ship Witch is IMPOSSIBLE to make a plank would be 1 cubic meter of wood, and lets say a 50cm by 50cm the whole lenght beam would be 32.m3 A cubic meeter of Planks costs around 115 EUR in slovenija so your one plank covers the lenght of the ship on one side They still have 800 $ left Beams usualy cost 150EUR per cubic meter and a beam frome one side to the other would be IMPOSSIBLE to make would cost around 5000 EUR So basycly you are paying for not one plank but a few rows of planks on one side, and one row of beams. The wood i have taken for these calculations is spruce a comonly used wood for constructions in slovenija, Without the knowlage of the actual wood they are using i cant tell you for how much you are being scammed though given the money they are going to spend on this my guess is a lot. My guess is they are using a very standard form of laundering money out of the build, The company that will actualy build the thing will OVERPRICE it allot, Moste of construction companies have a lot of money that they get on the side without giving out bills, they will then give some of this money that they do not have on record back to the guys that made this project happen and because it is funded by sponsors and fundies all at the top are happy they have a ship and a full wallet. EDIT:CRAP I MISSED THE TOPIC IT WAS SUPOSSED TO GO TO THE ARC TPOIC; CAN A MOD MOWE THIS?? Adminnemooseus reply - Do it at the proper topic yourself. And maybe consider working on your spelling and/or typos. Edited by frako, : No reason given. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide misplaced message.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Taq, in response to Bolder-dash, writes: The money spent on these science projects is dwarfed by the total amount of money that is out there. IIRC, the LHC cost around 7 or 8 billion to construct over several years. The US military budget is 700 to 800 billion per year, and it doesn't solve any of the problems you listed. I don't think the LHC (or other similar big projects) is the area you should be picking on. There are certainly other areas of government expenditures that should be questioned, the military (IMO) the greatest of the bunch*. I'm not anti-science, but I don't see that "we waste lots of money elsewhere" as reason to make science a sacred cow. Indeed, much military research and development can be filed under "science". How much did we blow on "Star Wars"? Sure, there probably was valuable knowledge to come out of "Star Wars", but was it an efficient way to go about the research? Send man to Mars? The cost/benefit analysis relative to unmanned would seem to be pretty dismal. I think we need to invest in maintaining our own planet much more (like non-fossil fuel energy sources). The LHC? I can get behind that, but I really don't think we need more than one of them. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Forgot to change subtitle.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
cavediver Member (Idle past 3644 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
The LHC? I can get behind that, but I really don't think we need more than one of them. I'm assuming that this is something you realised fifty years ago, as they were building SLAC?
Moose in 1960 writes:
Yes, I am fully behind this "futuristic" accelerator and I predict that it will make fabulous discoveries in the field of esoteric particle physics. But so much more than that, the leading-edge science, technology, and expertise developed in its *construction* will be invaluable to us *all* in the years ahead, not just the ivory-tower particle physicists. In fact, I predict that each successive future generation of accelerator will raise higher the bar of achievable technology, break through new limits on construction, as super-sceince continues to inspire and amaze with its ability to make the impossible possible... Oh, except in 2010... I will have had enough by then, and I think we'll be able to call it a day. I mean, there's only so much progress we can stomach. Right?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Son Member (Idle past 3830 days) Posts: 346 From: France,Paris Joined: |
It's true that scientific research is bad. If there hadn't been all those reasearches that helped agriculture, there wouldn't be 60-100 million children starving because the human population would have been much smaller. Actually, we would have been better of with sticks and stones, right? By the way, why do you even use a computer? It's the result of all this evil research after all, better not encourage it by using such an evil object.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
ctually, we would have been better of with sticks and stones, right? Stics and stones for tool use are scientific inventions one of the first you may only use your hands legs and teeth or anything else attached to your body. Clothes are a scientific invention too so nakedness is the key winter shiminter, fire is also an invention.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2642 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
It may be legit.
A man about 43 years of age giving the name Joshua Coppersmith has been arrested for attempting to extort funds from ignorant and superstitious people by exhibiting a device which he says will convey the human voice any distance over metallic wires. He calls the instrument a ‘telephone,’ which is obviously intended to imitate the word ‘telegraph’ and win the confidence of those who know the success of the latter instrument. Well informed people know that it is impossible to transmit the human voice over wires, as may be done by dots and dashes and signals of the Morse Code. The authorities who apprehended this criminal are to be congratulated and it is hoped that punishment will be prompt and fitting, and that it may serve as an example to other conscienceless schemers who enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow creatures. — Boston newspaper, 1865, quoted by Edison’s assistant Francis Jehl in Menlo Park Reminiscences, 1937 Technology Archives - Page 9 of 86 - Futility Closet
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Hi, Molbiogirl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We missed you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
There are certainly other areas of government expenditures that should be questioned, the military (IMO) the greatest of the bunch*. I'm not anti-science, but I don't see that "we waste lots of money elsewhere" as reason to make science a sacred cow. Indeed, much military research and development can be filed under "science". Any scientific research program should go through a review where the scientists must justify the project. I think we both agree on that. What I was arguing against is that science should be the prime target for cuts until world hunger is cured. I also mentioned the Arts. We have government funded endowments that fund the arts. What do we get out of it, in practical terms? Nothing. Is it still important? Absolutely. I view big science projects like the LHC and manned space flight in the same way. These are first and foremost human endeavors that push the limit of what we are capable of with science taking 2nd place in the whole scheme of things.
The LHC? I can get behind that, but I really don't think we need more than one of them. I agree. One is enough. After 20 years or so of operation we should have a better idea of what we should expect from an accelerator (probably space based) operating at 4-10 times the power of the LHC.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Without science we would be a third-world country.
Historical example: Arab countries were the seat of science during the European Dark Ages. Then, for about the same reasons as precipitated the Dark Ages, they turned their backs on science. I wouldn't want to see that sort of nonsense happen here because of some lame excuses about feeding the poor and solving all of our other problems first. The innovations coming out of science are the solutions to many of our problems. Examples: just start with agriculture and medicine for two. Microelectronics is another, and that field has revolutionized the world in about 50 years.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2578 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Moose in 1960 writes: ... EvC was active in 1960??? Coolest!!! - xongsmith, 5.7d
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Thanks.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2642 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Thanks, Coragyps! It's been a while.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024