Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,783 Year: 4,040/9,624 Month: 911/974 Week: 238/286 Day: 45/109 Hour: 2/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery for the Faith/Jazzns Great Debate
lfen
Member (Idle past 4703 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 32 of 37 (205635)
05-06-2005 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Percy
05-06-2005 8:52 AM


Re: Faith leaving
If we've made any significant mistakes with Faith it was in not realizing that articulateness and sincerity needn't be accompanied by rationality. She uses her gifts to persuade herself she's right rather than to explore what's true.
Percy,
C.S. Lewis is an even more extreme example of this. He was very well educated and skilled in writing. For many people the emotional impact of religion is too central to their emotional feelings about life and takes all precedence over rationality. And it could happen to any one of us though the probabilities may vary by large amounts.
I need to make time to reread James THE VARIETY OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE. It's been decades but as I recall it was a very thoughtful treatment of the range of human approaches to religon. EvC certainly sees quite a range of this variety.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 05-06-2005 8:52 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 05-06-2005 3:23 PM lfen has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4703 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 35 of 37 (205796)
05-07-2005 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
05-06-2005 3:23 PM


Re: Faith leaving
I would say it's accessible but it's not a contemporary style. As I recall the quality of thought is clear and profound but it is from a slightly earlier period so the writing is different. I read it ages ago when I was young. I didn't have problems with it then. My problem now is my eyes don't hold up for as long and I've got stuff to read. I wonder if it's on the net somewhere? I'll look.
By golly it is! You can take a look at it here. The thing I like is that I can pump up the font to make it easier for me to read. Yea!
Plus it's easy to copy and paste. another yea!
W. James: The Varieties of Religious Experience (Table of Contents)
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 05-06-2005 3:23 PM Percy has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4703 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 36 of 37 (205798)
05-07-2005 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
05-06-2005 3:23 PM


Re: Faith leaving
The pivot round which the religious life, as we have traced it, revolves, is the interest of the individual in his private personal destiny. Religion, in short, is a monumental chapter in the history of human egotism. The gods believed in- whether by crude savages or by men disciplined intellectually- agree with each other in recognizing personal calls. Religious thought is carried on in terms of personality, this being, in the world of religion, the one fundamental fact. To-day, quite as much as at any previous age, the religious individual tells you that the divine meets him on the basis of his personal concerns.
Science, on the other hand, has ended by utterly repudiating the personal point of view. She catalogues her elements and records her laws indifferent as to what purpose may be shown forth by them, and constructs her theories quite careless of their bearing on human anxieties and fates. Though the scientist may individually nourish a religion, and be a theist in his irresponsible hours, the days are over when it could be said that for Science herself the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork. Our solar system, with its harmonies, is seen now as but one passing case of a certain sort of moving equilibrium in the heavens, realized by a local accident in an appalling wilderness of worlds where no life can exist. In a span of time which as a cosmic interval will count but as an hour, it will have ceased to be. The Darwinian notion of chance production, and subsequent destruction, speedy or deferred, applies to the largest as well as to the smallest facts. It is impossible, in the present temper of the scientific imagination, to find in the driftings of the cosmic atoms, whether they work on the universal or on the particular scale, anything but a kind of aimless weather, doing and undoing, achieving no proper history, and leaving no result. Nature has no one distinguishable ultimate tendency with which it is possible to feel a sympathy. In the vast rhythm of her processes, as the scientific mind now follows them, she appears to cancel herself. The books of natural theology which satisfied the intellects of our grandfathers seem to us quite grotesque, * representing, as they did, a God who conformed the largest things of nature to the paltriest of our private wants. The God whom science recognizes must be a God of universal laws exclusively, a God who does a wholesale, not a retail business. He cannot accommodate his processes to the convenience of individuals. The bubbles on the foam which coats a stormy sea are floating episodes, made and unmade by the forces of the wind and water. Our private selves are like those bubbles,- epiphenomena, as Clifford, I believe, ingeniously called them; their destinies weigh nothing and determine nothing in the world's irremediable currents of events.
James: The Varieties of Religious Experience (Lect. 20)
Though the language is a trifle archaic I think James illuminates the conflicts on this forum between the religious and scientific points of view. I think this demonstrates that the threat to some individuals is simply too great for them to ever accept what science has to offer.
YMMV,
lfen
edit: removed a typo "s" inadvertant pluralizing of "science".
This message has been edited by lfen, 05-06-2005 11:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 05-06-2005 3:23 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 05-07-2005 7:39 AM lfen has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024