Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 57 (9054 total)
68 online now:
PaulK, Phat, Tangle (3 members, 65 visitors)
Newest Member: EWolf
Post Volume: Total: 888,260 Year: 5,906/14,102 Month: 54/438 Week: 98/83 Day: 0/21 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Mind's Eye (etc?)
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (216284)
06-11-2005 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Minnemooseus
06-11-2005 9:10 PM


Think of a house you used to live in a long time ago--one that you lived in for a long time.

You can move around in that house like a camera with a spotlight, shining on first this detail, then that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-11-2005 9:10 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 06-11-2005 10:08 PM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 17 of 65 (216300)
06-11-2005 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Minnemooseus
06-11-2005 9:10 PM


Do you dream in colour?

Are you good at trivia?

Do songs run through your head?


People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-11-2005 9:10 PM Minnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-25-2007 8:53 PM ringo has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19302
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 18 of 65 (216301)
06-11-2005 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by robinrohan
06-11-2005 9:16 PM


"Replay" scenes from your life.

(I "preview" things that are going to happen - interviews, etc.)


People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by robinrohan, posted 06-11-2005 9:16 PM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 2988 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 19 of 65 (216304)
06-11-2005 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by robinrohan
06-11-2005 6:32 PM


We don't think in words. We think in pictures.

I don't think in pictures per se. But if I want to remember an event, it will come into focus in my mind. If there is an emotional attachment to the event or mental focus on the event at the time it occurs, the remembered image is quite clear in my mind as a photo.

Without the emotional imprint, then the image is fuzzy and out of focus. Sort of like bad reception on a television set.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by robinrohan, posted 06-11-2005 6:32 PM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3097 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 20 of 65 (216354)
06-12-2005 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
02-08-2004 4:19 AM


Hi moose.

Well, this shows what I know; I thought that everyone could visualize images in their head. I'm genuinely surprised to hear that you can't.

Speaking for myself, I am generally able to visualize scenes, objects, etc, with a fair degree of clarity. Depending on how hard I focus, I can sometimes visualize images almost as real as those I actually see. As a rule, the more familiar the image the more easily it comes.

A moment ago, I tried visualizing something. When I read Parasomnium's "...some places in the woods I have been to..." I was inspired to try a woodland setting. I resisted imagining any that I've actually seen in real life and instead tried to create one of my own. I found that I was able to come up with a generally clear visual scene I could "move around" within (very much like a first-person gaming perspective, except no screen between your eyes and the environment :D ).

I've never really analysed my visualizations this way before, but now that I do, I can report that my "vision" appears to be similar to my actual vision in the sense that the sharpest, clearest part of the image is the immediate vicinity of my direct focus and, beyond this, the image becomes increasingly less well-defined the further you get from this point.

I also appear to be able to "shift my attention" to something else without actually looking at it, if you get my meaning. Just as in real life, when you are looking directly at one thing but you are concentrating on another in the periphery of your field of view. I can do that, to some extent, in my imagination. When I do, though, I find that the point I am actually looking at (i.e. my direct point of focus) loses clarity. I am still "looking" at it, but I find it hard to keep it clear while I shift my attention (but not my visual focus) to the periphery.

I experimented a little with my "woodland scene" and found that I was able to use almost all senses at different points. I could hear the wind, and feel it hitting me. I could also hear the dry leaves under my feet crunching as I walked. I alternated between shoes and bare feet and was also able to feel the leaves as they crunched underfoot.

I tried creating a wood cabin with a workbench outside. I went up to the bench and picked up what looked like (when I let my mind go random things tend to happen :P ) an old, rusty Swiss army knife. I was able to see the detail of the rust, as well as feel its texture as I ran a finger over it.

Oddly enough (I don't know if this is normal or not), I actually find the sense of feel to be one of the easier ones to emulate mentally. As a child (and even today it's still a guilty pleasure), I used to imagine myself flying. It was very tactile in the sense that I would imagine not simply a first-person image of clouds and landscape whipping by, but I would "feel" the accompanying wind whooshing past me.

It's a difficult sensation to explain. I don't understand how it works myself but somehow I can actually make myself mentally "feel" the sense of weightlessness. In ordinary daydreaming, unfortunately, the sense of reality tends to be stifled by the remnants of conscious thought (at least, I assume that's what it is). This is why I love lucid dreaming; there are no intrusions by the conscious mind, so the flying feels absolutely real.

Anyway, I'm getting further and further off-topic so I'll stop. Great thread, moose! Very interesting to read different people's perspectives on it. I could probably write an entire essay on my one "imaginary experiment" myself, but I won't. Oh wait... I already have.:P


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-08-2004 4:19 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Chiroptera, posted 06-12-2005 10:59 AM Tony650 has responded

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3097 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 21 of 65 (216356)
06-12-2005 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
06-10-2005 6:53 PM


Lam writes:

I can't picture anything in my head at all, ever.

Really? I find this extremely hard to comprehend. Is this truly as absolute as it sounds or do you just mean that you find it very, very difficult? I'm not saying you're wrong (only you know your own mind), I'm honestly asking. I can't quite get my head around the functioning of a mind that absolutely cannot, in any way, ever visualize an image...period!

For example, if I were to ask you to describe your parents to me, or brothers, sisters, a friend, etc, are you really saying that you don't "see" their faces in your mind? Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question. I just can't figure this one out.:confused:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 06-10-2005 6:53 PM coffee_addict has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by coffee_addict, posted 06-29-2005 2:16 PM Tony650 has not yet responded

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3097 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 22 of 65 (216359)
06-12-2005 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
06-10-2005 10:47 PM


Re: My missing message, mostly
crash writes:

I can visualize stuff I've never seen, too, and I can do it with my eyes open.

I'm not sure if this is common or not but, for some odd reason, I often find visualization easier with my eyes open. Doesn't seem to make much sense but there it is.

You would think that it would be easier to focus on what you're picturing without the distraction of your actual vision, yet I often find that it takes greater effort this way. When I open my eyes it's almost like removing a mental blindfold. Weird, huh?

Is this true of anyone else or am I a total freak?:P

crash writes:

I'm working on smells these days.

I can do smells, to a degree. Certainly a lesser degree than images and sounds, mind you. In fact, though I can mentally "smell" things, this is probably the least-developed of my "mental senses."

I have a much easier time even with taste. It's not at all uncommon for my mouth to water from an imagined "taste" which, I suppose, is interesting considering your real sense of taste is mostly smell (so I've heard), yet I find smell considerably harder to imagine.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 10:47 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by nator, posted 06-13-2005 8:58 AM Tony650 has responded

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3097 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 23 of 65 (216361)
06-12-2005 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Chiroptera
06-10-2005 11:03 PM


Chiroptera writes:

I read somewhere that the majority of people use visual images in their mental images. Of the rest of the people, a majority used sound as the major component of their mental images.

That sounds about right to me. Our "imagination" is, after all, not an isolated system divorced from the outside world. Indeed, the exact opposite would seem to be the case. As far as I can tell, the way we conceptualize things in our mind is entirely programmed into it via our sensory experience of the world around us. I can't think of any way to perceive a concept in my mind that doesn't involve mentally emulating at least one of the five senses.

I think that most people having a "visual imagination" is a natural consequence of the fact that humans are primarily visual creatures. The groups that you mentioned would seem to confirm this, to some degree.

I initially suspected that if we were the same in every other way but lacked our sense of sight, the most common method of "imagining" things would be by conjuring sounds in our mind. I imagine that hearing would probably contribute the most significant portion of our sensory input after vision, so it's not surprising that the majority of those without a "visual imagination" would report an "auditory imagination."

I think that the percentage with each type of imagination is probably representative of the degree to which we generally rely on each respective sense to perceive our environment. This, I think, would explain why the most common types are visual, followed by auditory.

I wonder what the majority would have if we were all blind and deaf. A "tactual imagination" perhaps? I've never really given this any thought but it's interesting to speculate about.

Ok, I'm starting to wander again. I'll stop before I go off-topic as I am so wont to do.:P


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 06-10-2005 11:03 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 65 (216404)
06-12-2005 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tony650
06-12-2005 7:49 AM


quote:
I tried creating a wood cabin with a workbench outside.

That's interesting. I immediately had the scene of the wood cabin, and I could even tell you where the doors, windows, and work bench are. Yet I have to concentrate to get an actual visual image in my head, and even then it's not too distinct and kind of changes.

On the other hand, like you, I find it easier to make visual images if I keep my eyes open.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tony650, posted 06-12-2005 7:49 AM Tony650 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Tony650, posted 06-14-2005 2:57 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 3742 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 25 of 65 (216497)
06-12-2005 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by robinrohan
06-11-2005 6:32 PM


We don't think in words. We think in pictures.

This we is you and who? Neuro Linguistic Programing makes a distinction between visual, auditory, and kinesthetic modes of learning and accessing memories. There are people who use pictures, others talk to themselves, others access feelings.

I can do a little of each but oddly and seemingly less usefully kinesthetics are my strongest recall. I can see a somewhat detailed but not sharp image of say an orange. I more vividly can feel the weight of it in my hand, the smooth but bumpy texture of the skin and how that skin feels under my nails as I peel it and the soft texture of the white inner peel of the orange, etc. Now, Schraf may have a vivid recall of flavors and aromas.

I do most of my thinking like I'm doing right now while typing, that is by talking to myself using the English language.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by robinrohan, posted 06-11-2005 6:32 PM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 531 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 26 of 65 (216503)
06-12-2005 11:57 PM


A similar phenomenon?
I watch a lot of anime, and I like to watch it subtitled because most dubbing is poorly-acted and distracting.

Later, upon recollection, I find that somehow I've blended the English-language written translation with the voice and emoting of the Japanese-language audio track. Could this shed some light into the linguistic centers of the brain? Can that segment of my mind tell the difference between language as speech and language as symbol?

I'm a voracious reader (and a literature major) so maybe it's a specific adaptation of my mind. Just something I thought I'd throw out there.


Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 06-13-2005 1:49 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 408 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 65 (216515)
06-13-2005 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by crashfrog
06-12-2005 11:57 PM


Re: A similar phenomenon?
Could this shed some light into the linguistic centers of the brain?

possibly. iirc, the written and auditory language centers are not only separate, but on different hemispheres. but i could be wrong.

This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 06-13-2005 01:49 AM


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by crashfrog, posted 06-12-2005 11:57 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 28 of 65 (216560)
06-13-2005 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
02-08-2004 4:19 AM


I can't bring up an image of written words on a page like some people can.

What I do have an excellent memory of is the color, shape, size, and texture of the notebook, the pen I used to write on it, where I was when I last looked at it, where it is now in my apartment, etc.

I am very good at remembering landmarks and physical attributes of objects, less good at remembering physical attributes of people, and pretty bad at remembering names unless I am made to speak or write them (or if I see them written).

There is some evidence to suggest that the human brain compartmentalizes memory to some extent.

For example, people can get very pinpointed, local brain damage that renders them unable to recognize faces or written words, and also objects (usually either living or non-living things).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-08-2004 4:19 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 11:01 AM nator has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 65 (216568)
06-13-2005 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Tony650
06-12-2005 8:11 AM


Re: My missing message, mostly
Yes, your sense of taste is mostly smell.

I can also recall tastes well (I'd better; it's a big part of my job!), and I am pretty good with smells, too, I think as a natural consequence.

I can always imagine what the aroma of bacon is like, and burnt toast, and vanilla, and roses.

As I think about what these things smell like, I am imagining myself smelling them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Tony650, posted 06-12-2005 8:11 AM Tony650 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tony650, posted 06-14-2005 3:29 PM nator has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 30 of 65 (216606)
06-13-2005 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
06-13-2005 8:32 AM


Storing memory
There is some evidence to suggest that the human brain compartmentalizes memory to some extent.

I would imagine that when you looked into some peoples brains you'd find row on row of filing cabinets, cross referenced and indexed.

Or in my case, a vast pile of papers with strings attached. I pull on a string and a paper comes out. Unfortunately, so do a skizillion others that I find even more interesting then what I was looking for. :(


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 06-13-2005 8:32 AM nator has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021