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Member (Idle past 5810 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: wheat grass... any science to this fad? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
Research
I just had a quick perusal of this part of your site. Unless those claims are actually backed up you are deliberately trying to pretend to be scientific and using the careful wording of your site to mislead. That is just as much lying as saying the dog ate my homework (when, in fact, I ground it into hamburger and feed it to him). I haven't dug deeply but given the exchange here so far it looks like you are doing an evasive dance to avoid being pinned down. The snake oil salesman suit does seem to fit you well. I'm waiting for some substantive rebuttal from you. I'm somewhat curious as to what the post of nators was that was deleted on your site.
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DynamicGreens Junior Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 11 From: Toronto, ON Joined: |
To avoid being pinned down for what...publishing opinion and research of recognized industry professionals?
Complementing this by allowing customers post their personal health experiences? Adding an accurate disclaimer that shows up on the web, the order page in particular and the packaging itself? Edited by DynamicGreens, : No reason given. Edited by DynamicGreens, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Let's start with this:
Derek Stem aka DynamicGreens writes: Adding an accurate disclaimer that shows up on the web, the order page in particular and the packaging itself? Well, let's take a look at your disclaimer:
DynamicGreens Disclaimer writes: While we personally use DynamicGreens products to pursue excellent health, we are not, nor do we represent ourselves to be medical or health care professionals and expressly make no guarantee as to any health or medical benefits obtained by the use of wheatgrass juice. You agree to assume complete responsibility for any decision to use our products for any purpose, including health or medical purposes and assume complete responsibility for any consequences to your health, whether alone or in conjunction with any other health or medical product and agree to consult with a qualified health care professional before engaging in any use, especially if you have any known health or medical conditions. DynamicGreens, WheatgrassJuice.us, WheatgrassJuice.ca, including its officers, directors, agents and assignees, is not responsible for any adverse effects or consequences resulting from the use of our wheatgrass juice products or from the use of any of the suggestions, preparations or procedures outlined, discussed or recommended on this web site or elsewhere. Gee, Derek, your disclaimer reads just like any standard legal disclaimer intended to disavow any responsibility for what happens to anyone who actually uses the information you provide. Ever see a disclaimer like this attached to any prescription medicine you get that's been through traditional double-blind studies and approved by the FDA? I don't think so. But the main problem is that your disclaimer is at great odds with the rest of your website which makes many confident claims regarding the benefits of wheatgrass juice.
Derek writes: To avoid being pinned down for what...publishing opinion and research of recognized industry professionals? Opinion? Where does it say at your website anywhere besides your disclaimer that you're only giving your opinion? Your uninformed, unscientific opinion at that, just as you state in your disclaimer. I'm looking at this webpage right now:
Here's a few excerpts, you let me know which of them are stated as if they were only an opinion:
DynamicGreens Website writes: Wheatgrass Juice has Everything Your Body Needs ... Wheatgrass juice is a complete food or super food because the broad spectrum of nutrition can single handedly support the body. ... Wheatgrass has been shown to be a potent inhibitor of several carcinogens. Applying low levels of the extract to mutagens diminished activity in them by up to 99%.
--Dr. Chiu Nan Lai ... Wheatgrass juice is rich in chlorophyll. Chlorophyll purifies the blood, prevents tooth decay, aids in proper digestion, helps detoxify the liver, keeps the thyroid gland in balance, cleanses internal organs, enhances capillary function, supports sex hormones, decontaminates inorganic chemicals, and builds up white blood cell counts.
--Dr. Ann Wigmore Dr. Chiu-Nan Lai is the founder of Lapis Lazuli Light, whose "objective is to promote Dr. Lai's 'Body, Mind and Spirit' Total Health concept to all levels of society." And Ann Wigmore, deceased as of 1994, has a website at Ann Wigmore Natural Health Institute | Living Foods Lifestyle that says, "the Ann Wigmore Natural Health Institute is to promote self-healing through the Living Foods Lifestyle®." And get a load of this about cancer:
DynamicGreens writes: Have Been Diagnosed With Cancer Having been confronted with a health crisis, they look to make positive changes. Typically, the goal is to make adjustments that may help fuel the body short-term as well as develop a sustainable health promoting environment for the long-term. For the most part they indicate:
Your website is actually encouraging victims of cancer to seek alternatives outside traditional medicine! What could be more horrific? Your website is full of all the false claims of your industry, like these from you page of Wigmore's claims:
Dynamic Greens writes:
Wow, wheatgrass juice can do all that! People might want to have a look at this Wheatgrass Madness webpage for information that is actually true. The problem with your website, Derek, as we've been telling you over and over and over and as you've been ignoring and ignoring and ignoring, is that you're taking advantage of people unfamiliar with science by making it appear to them that there is scientific support for your health claims about wheatgrass juice when there is little to none. Oh, and about this from your previous message:
Derek writes: If the intent was truly to enter discussion where all interested parties could see and participate, it would never have left this forum. The behaviour moderated on our forum is behaviour that is also contradictory to the rules of etiquette here at EvC. So what you're really upset about is that when you came here and made bogus claims, people called you on them. You would like to rely upon politeness to keep people from calling attention to your misrepresentations. In your view of morality is it evidently worse to call attention to a misrepresentation than to make one. We do have a set of Forum Guidelines here at EvC Forum, and one of them is this one:
So go ahead, Derek, follow our Forum Guidelines and support the claims about wheatgrass juice enhancing oxygen transport, increasing red blood cell count, preventing tooth decay, allowing flow of lymphatic fluid, and all the rest. A lot of mumbo-jumbo, Derek, and no research. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Hi Derek,
I was reading the early posts in this thread and have discovered that it's a font of information about wheatgrass juice. I was particularly taken by the details about Ann Wigmore, so since you devote an entire pate at your website to Wigmore's claims, let's examine Ms. Wigmore a bit. The story of Ann Wigmore is at so many websites that I'm not going to cite any - they all contain nearly identical text. Just type "wigmore massachusetts wheatgrass attorney general" into Google and you'll get lots of hits. My information comes from this. Wigmore was not a medical doctor. She never had any medical training, and she never did any medical research. She claimed to have a Doctor of Divinity degree from the College of Divine Metaphysics in Indianapolis. She believed in astrology, and her wheatgrass claims were based upon the Biblical tale of Nebuchadnezzar recovering from insanity by eating grass for several years. Given that scientific studies are the only way to verify such claims, and given that no such studies have ever been done, and given that Wigmore's claims give the appearance of being scientific and thus communicate a false impression about the scientific support for wheatgrass juice health claims, shouldn't your webpage of Wigmore's claims (More Potential Benefits From Wheatgrass Juice) be removed? --Percy
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OK, so can you explain how "denatured" (changed) food is not good to eat, like it says on your website? If you tell people that "denatured" food isn't good to eat, but you aren't willing to explain the reason you tell people this, it really does appear that you are making stuff up in order to get people to buy your product.
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DynamicGreens Junior Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 11 From: Toronto, ON Joined: |
Hi nator,
Percy has decided to take up the cause by moving the discussion to our forum. I certainly respect your opinion and questions but don't have the time to respond on both sides. In addition, I don't really have anything more to add here. My belief is based on observations and experience and I know that this doesn't measure up on EvC by the stated intention of the site and by the very words that I just used. The posts here have been great food for thought. Cheers.
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Hey, Percy, have you been over to DynamicGreens recently?
A few things have changed.
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Whoa! New research!
I just got back from vacation and am catching up, I'll take a more detailed look later. --Percy
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Percy, have you had a chance to catch up with our buddy Derek?
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I read the new citations, but I've run out of time for any more than that.
It was Derek's repetitive marketing-style posts that ignored our points with an almost zombie-like persistence that originally got me going. I've calmed down now. There are a million flim-flam men out there and only one of me. --Percy
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jaredjb Junior Member (Idle past 5272 days) Posts: 2 From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Joined: |
There's nutritional study that was published by Crop and Food Research NZ that shows what's in Wheatgrass. There are a variety of vitamins, minerals, enzymes, and then there's chlorophyll. It's a good study. You can find the results here: Wheat Grass Nutritional Analyses.
You can also learn more about what's in Wheatgrass by visiting the Wheatgrass Health Benefits Page at Wheatgrass Place. Jared Balis Wheatgrass Place http://www.WheatgrassPlace.com
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 725 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Hi, jaredib! Welcome to EvC!
I went to your page, and things did not start off too well. The first bullet point there says
Because the chlorophyll molecule is nearly identical to the hemoglobin molecule.... This is laughably wrong. Chlorophyll refers to one of several pigments with a molecular weight of around 900 daltons; hemoglobin is a protein with a molecular weight of 75 times that. Hemoglobin does incorporate heme, a family of iron-containing pigments that are "cousins" to chlorophyll, but the two are not at all "nearly identical." Heme B, for example, has a molecular weight of 616. And I'll bet that Bermuda grass would have a very similar set of analytical results to those the Kiwi company gives for wheatgrass. Heck, rice stems may give you all that and will provide a lot more silica! Edited by Coragyps, : tpyo....
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jaredjb Junior Member (Idle past 5272 days) Posts: 2 From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Joined: |
While it is true that this is an oversimplified statement (for ease of understanding), it is also true that hemoglobin and chlorophyll both contain a similar ring structure, with different central ions. Yes there is controversy surrounding this claim. If you feel the need to attack that, or any other bullet point again, I invite you to do so.
Jared Balishttp://www.WheatgrassPlace.com
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
The Ann Wigmore Institute in Puerto Rico uses wheat grass along with other natural regimes for rejuvinating health. Her methodology has benefited thousands including terminal cancer victims etc. If the US would apply a fraction of the proposed health care billions to things like this there would be no health care crisis at all.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 725 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
There's nothing there to set wheatgrass apart from a thousand other potential sources of vitamin A, or vitamin C, or of selenium. The analysis from New Zealand reports "data better that assertion.
Edited by Coragyps, : addition
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