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Author Topic:   wheat grass... any science to this fad?
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 725 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 91 of 101 (530011)
10-11-2009 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Buzsaw
10-11-2009 6:13 PM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
Hey, Buzz! Does Ann have any double-blind studies on "curing cancer"? She has a published policy:
Upon arrival, you will be asked to sign a disclaimer that releases AWI from any responsibility for any health conditions you experience, pre-existing or otherwise. You must be able to care for yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2009 6:13 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2009 11:10 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
jacortina
Member (Idle past 5074 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 08-07-2009


Message 92 of 101 (530015)
10-11-2009 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Coragyps
10-11-2009 6:26 PM


Chlorophyll and Science
PubMed notes some studies about Chlorophyll/Chlorophyllin and cancer. It may be that the very fact that it ISN'T absorbed can make it beneficial as it tends to bind to some mutagens/carcinogens to prevent THEIR absorption:
Inhibitory effect of chlorophyllin on PhIP-induced mammary carcinogenesis in female F344 rats - PubMed
Inhibitory activity of chlorophyllin on the genotoxicity of carcinogens in Drosophila - PubMed
Not all the studies are clear, though, as variance in concentrations can actually PROMOTE carcinogenesis:
Promotion versus suppression of rat colon carcinogenesis by chlorophyllin and chlorophyll: modulation of apoptosis, cell proliferation, and beta-catenin/Tcf signaling - PubMed
And even when it helps suppress SOME kind of cancers, keeping those carcinogens in the bowels seem to promote colorectal tumors:
Chlorophyllin, an antimutagen, acts as a tumor promoter in the rat-dimethylhydrazine colon carcinogenesis model - PubMed
Looks like something of a mixed bag. Pretty much like any other one single chemical or compound.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Coragyps, posted 10-11-2009 6:26 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 101 (530022)
10-11-2009 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Coragyps
10-11-2009 6:26 PM


Re: Wheatgrass and Science
Coragyps writes:
What's the big deal with this stuff as compared to, say, collard greens or alfalfa hay? Do you have any data to show it's better in any particular, except as a source of income to you or whoever is selling it?
1. It appears to bring exceptional results for whatever reason.
2. I have Ann Wigmore's book and perhaps the careful way it is grown and cut at a certain height at the optimal stage of nutritious benefit has a bearing on the popularity of it. I believe it's cut when about 4 or 5 inches whereas collard greens or alfalfa hay may be harvested at a more mature stage.
3. It may be more easily digested and assimilated by folks who have damaged and weak digestive system etc.
The above are just some possibilities that come to mind.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Coragyps, posted 10-11-2009 6:26 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 101 (530025)
10-11-2009 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Coragyps
10-11-2009 6:31 PM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
Coragyps writes:
Hey, Buzz! Does Ann have any double-blind studies on "curing cancer"? She has a published policy:
I have no idea whether she does or not. She's popular with folks who have benefited by her institute methodology which has been around for a long time. Likey she's more concerned about results than doing impressive studies. When terminally ill folks who've been sent home to die by conventional medicine are benefited they couldn't care less whether she's done double-blind studies and such. Perhaps that's why she's operating in Puerto Rico, so she can concentrate more on helping the destitute sick than fighting the buracracy.
ABE: The published policy is nothing more than a disclaimer which is needful and reasonable protection, especially when advocating anything alternative to the conventional healthcare establishment. There's nothing unusual about such a precaution policy.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Coragyps, posted 10-11-2009 6:31 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Theodoric, posted 10-12-2009 9:08 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 95 of 101 (530098)
10-12-2009 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Buzsaw
10-11-2009 11:10 PM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
Perhaps that's why she's operating in Puerto Rico, so she can concentrate more on helping the destitute sick than fighting the buracracy.
BS. It is all an attempt to seperate people from their money.
Wheatgrass is worthless quackery.
quote:
According to William T. Jarvis, a retired professor of public health at the Loma Linda University School of Medicine and founder of the National Council against Health Fraud, this is all baloney: Enzymes are complex protein molecules produced by living organisms exclusively for their own use in promoting chemical reactions. Orally ingested enzymes are digested in the stomach and have no enzymatic activity in the eater. Jarvis adds, The fact that grass-eating animals are not spared from cancer, despite their large intake of fresh chlorophyll, seems to have been lost on Wigmore. In fact, chlorophyll cannot ‘detoxify the body’ because it is not absorbed.
Source
Her original idea was biblically inspired.
quote:
The alleged salubrious effects of wheatgrass were promoted in the 1940s by a Lithuanian immigrant to Boston named Ann Wigmore, a holistic health practitioner who was inspired by the biblical story of King Nebuchadnezzar, recounted in Daniel 4:33, in which he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds’ claws.
Same source as above.
quote:
Anecdotal case reports of tumor regressions and life extension among cancer patients who followed the wheatgrass regimen have been published in the proponent literature (see, e.g., (344)), but thus far, no studies of its clinical role in the treatment of cancer have been reported.
Page not found | Quackwatch
Don't you think there would be some published studies if this stuff really worked?
They do not seem to be making such outtrageous claims.
quote:
# The Ann Wigmore Institute is a school, not a clinic or a spa.
# We offer no medical advice or medical intervention of any kind. We have no physicians or nurses on staff though we can arrange for a local physician to visit you here if you find it necessary or in case of an emergency.
# If you are challenged with a medical condition, please consult your health care practitioner to determine whether our detoxification program and lifestyle changes are appropriate for you.
# Upon arrival, you will be asked to sign a disclaimer that releases AWI from any responsibility for any health conditions you experience, pre-existing or otherwise. You must be able to care for yourself.
Destitute??
The "classes' are not free. It is a money making enterprise it is not some sort of charity.
Don't you find it odd that NONE of these alternative medicine places can show any verifiable evidence that their programs work? All they can give is anecdotal evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2009 11:10 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2009 8:41 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 101 (530276)
10-12-2009 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Theodoric
10-12-2009 9:08 AM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
Theodoric writes:
BS. It is all an attempt to seperate people from their money.
Wheatgrass is worthless quackery.
Come, let us reason together, Theodoric. Which parts more folks from a whole lot more money and which is the more dangerous and risky, prescription drugs having price tags into the hundreds of $$ per dose and having side effects ranging from suicidal tendencies to death or wheatgrass which effects only good side effects and which is relatively cheap compared to prescription drugs?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Theodoric, posted 10-12-2009 9:08 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Coragyps, posted 10-12-2009 9:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 10-12-2009 11:10 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 725 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 97 of 101 (530285)
10-12-2009 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
10-12-2009 8:41 PM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
I'm sure wheatgrass can be cheaper if you avoid going to "schools" in Puerto Rico to learn how to drink tea made from straw. But cowshit is cheaper yet, is frequently made from wheatgrass, and has as much evidence for its efficacy in healing disease as wheatgrass does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2009 8:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 98 of 101 (530312)
10-12-2009 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
10-12-2009 8:41 PM


Re: Ann Wigmore Institute
prescription drugs having price tags into the hundreds of $$ per dose and having side effects ranging from suicidal tendencies to death
Prescription drugs have scientific evidence that shows their effectiveness. Do some have drastic side effects? Sure. But there is at least evidence that they work. Wheatgrass is just a bunch of hokum. Show some real evidence for its effectiveness. Gee you can't. Just as I figured.
This wheatgrass seminar ain't cheap either.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2009 8:41 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2009 11:57 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 101 (530317)
10-12-2009 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
10-12-2009 11:10 PM


Re: Price Comparison
Theodoric writes:
This wheatgrass seminar ain't cheap either.
No, it's not. It would likely cost as much as a ride to the emergency room and a couple of nights in a hospital with a three minute doc visit, not counting the pill bill.
As to it's effectiveness, the success and demand for the institute's services speaks for itself, not to mention the fact that so many folks who the conventionalists gave up on are helped when they followed the regime.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 10-12-2009 11:10 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2009 4:33 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 100 of 101 (530470)
10-13-2009 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Buzsaw
10-12-2009 11:57 PM


Re: Price Comparison
not to mention the fact that so many folks who the conventionalists gave up on are helped when they followed the regime.
Funny how the only evidence is anecdotal evidence isn't it. Do you ahve any evidence to back up this assertion?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Buzsaw, posted 10-12-2009 11:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 10-14-2009 12:36 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 101 (530532)
10-14-2009 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Theodoric
10-13-2009 4:33 PM


Re: Price Comparison
This and
this site explain some of the reasons why folks have been benefited by wheat grass.
There are numerous testimonies of cancer patients who have benefited by wheat grass out there on the internet if you care to look them up. These are anticdotal since they are not based on science studies. Imo, the number of testimonials out there are reason to lend some credence to the benefits of it. It stands to reason that the amount of clorophyl and other powerful anti-oxidant nutrients in the product is what makes it work.
Nonetheless, it would take someone willing to subject themselves to a rigorous diet rigime in order to help or reverse cancer. Anyone whose liver is destroyed would definitely not be able to be healed by any methodology.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2009 4:33 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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