I have learned many things both lurking and participating at EvC
Three big general things come to mind
1. Being able to tap the knowledge of some experts in fields that I just don't bump elbows with on a daily basis has vastly improved my understanding of a number of really interesting topics ranging from science to theology. Nothing has been more exciting at times than reading some of the well thought out posts of Bill Birkland, JonF, rox, Mathummus, RAZD, Omni, Queztzal, others I may be forgetting and the theological perspectives of jar, arach, and Brian especially. Every time I start getting bored of this place I find another opportunity to learn something that I may not have in my daily life. Even today as many of the topics have become more ethereal since most of the YECs we see have retreated to the abstract (crazy QM, alternate universes/timelines, alternate rules of the universe, etc) I am continually surprised at the things I am able to pick up. EvC is like the discovery channel but interactive. =)
2. I came to the debate unsure of my position on evolution and creation and even my own Christianity. I am no longer in doubt about any of those issues. In my deepest and strongest faith I asked God to put me on a path toward the truth whatever the truth is. Coming from a "literalist" family and a "literalist" church, putting that doctrine to the fire I learned that those who claim to be literalists are actually not. More is read into and abstractly interpreted in order to make the first books of the Bible "real" that you can no longer call it literal. To be a biblical literalist you have to accept that the Bible has conflicts because LITERALLY it does. Some of the things in the Bible are stories and that is okay. I could have let this knowledge ruin my faith but I realized that I had found God independent of the Bible and really independent of the church. All the church did was guide doctrine and I realize looking back at my search that I had continually abandoned the church for all the reasons that I can more concretely define now. I tried being a Moslem, I tried being an atheist, and I wasn't really interested in any of the other religions I investigated. I always found myself coming back to Christ but somehow feeling disenfranchised from the church. In the end God might be all in my head but I can only go on what I feel is real and I feel that God is real.
From what I have learned from those who have gone out and investigated it is that the history of the church is tied closely to the history of the Bible. Each book in the canon has a unique history and it is only because at some point that some "inspired" humans decided that these are the word of God has the religion pushed that into doctrine. It is for that reason I have went out to look about the history of books that the church harps on such as Revelations. So much church doctrine is built around what sounds very similar to mythology you get from greek and roman culture. Based on what I have learned about the history of the Book of Revelations I have rejected it. I would not have even bothered to critically investigate it had I never experienced the level of scholarship that many put into examining the Bible on this forum. I had no idea that such an account of historical and academic information about the Bible even existed although I do feel stupid sometimes for not assuming that did. Why wouldn't there be a plethora of information about one of if not the most influential books in the world. The community that I have experienced here at EvC has simply changed the way I think at a fundamental level. This was not school. This was not my daily life or daily thought process. This was something new that I have learned to cherish and I really have EVERYONE on this board to thank for it.
3. I don't really know how to say what I am about to without offending some people and I am also not really sure if I care because I don't believe the same regard would be held for me (seeing that in the past it has not) if the situation was reversed. I have learned on this forum what I believe to be the absolute spiritual, emotional, and intellectual bankruptcy of the
stereotypical fundamentalist position. Bankruptcy may even be too lenient a word. At the worst I can only call it unadulterated intellectual depravity. I have seen what I feel is raw hate, racism, and other types of discrimination. I have seen levels of incredulity that I did not know a human being could even attain without the assistance of some kind of disorder. I am sort of typing stream of consciousness right now and I feel like some of that might be harsh but I cannot really describe how I feel about it accurately any other way.
{ABE: really wanted to emphasize stereotypical. There are many on this board who might be considered fundamentalist who do not elicit such a response in my mind although they may have a tendency to lean in that direction.}
I have seen the position force people to completely disregard fact in favor of fantasy; even fantasy that has no basis in their religion. I have seen tactics evolve that can be called nothing less than dishonest. There has been ZERO regard for even UNDERSTANDING what the other side of the argument is saying. I have even been attacked for agreeing with my opponent as if my mere existence as one of the others presented the necessity to disagree with anything I said. It is almost like it is a knee jerk reaction to need to disagree regardless of what I said.
Some may say that similar things could be said about the other side but all I see whenever someone tries to justify that is pointing at disagreement and argumentation trying to label it as ignorance. It is though a person daring to disagree is automatically relegated to the status of a malcontent regardless of what the content of the disagreement actually is.
Some other specific things I have learned are:
Liberals can be just as scary as neo-conservatives. I have discovered the Authoritarian to Libertarian continuum and have found myself to be an advocate on the Libertarian side without even knowing it. Authoritarian conservatives or liberals have the most potential to be the demise of many of the ideals Americans (or any freedom loving people) hold dear. IMO of course.
There ARE two Genesis stories. I never even thought about it that way. It is also funny to see literalists build non-literal interpretations to try to rectify the contradictions.
There are about as many ways to melt the earth as there were animals on the ark if you try to squish 4.5 GA worth of earth processes into 6000 years.
It is hard to describe sedimentary geology on an internet forum. It is much easier to do on a blackboard.
People WILL LIE in an attempt to preserve and propagate their dogma. (ie. Kent Hovind, Dover school administrators)
A not insignificant number of Americans really DONT believe in the principles of the Constitution. And that is scary.
Dinosaurs are much more exciting now than when I was in elementary school.
Some republicans can be really awesome. (ie. John McCain, Judge Jones)
Most are not. (ie. Everyone who voted for the Anti-Gay Marriage ammendment and the fing retarded Flag ammendment)
It is too bad that Democrats are such wussies.
I am so glad that I had a well rounded science education. Even though my science (computer science) isnt really, it is nice really to have the capacity to understand someone like Bill.
We know more about the universe then I ever though we did.
We know so little about the universe.
Omnis nerd-fu is currently greater than my nerd-fu.
Much more that I probably cant list.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.
Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)
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