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| Author | Topic: Has EvC changed your beliefs? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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GDR Member  Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
I re-read your previous post and then read this one. I appreciate the fact that you are learning. For myself I'm a Christian who started posting because of an interest in science for which I have no background. I have learned a great deal. (Thank you cavediver in particular.)
As far as fundamentalism is concerned I wouldn't be as harsh as you were. I disagree with reading the Bible as a scientific text or as a newspaper but my experience in real life, (as opposed to what someone will write on an internet forum), is that fundamentalist Christians are relatively gentle and constructive members of society. They can be judgmental at times, but can't we all. Back to the OP however. I have learned about issues of science and I have been pressed to think out and articulate my faith and these things combined have both strengthened and clarified my faith. Everybody is entitled to my opinion. 
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
NosyNed writes: I once had the idea that you could talk to individuals about the mistaken information they had about the world and how it works. I believed that they would want to learn more and understand better. I expected this would change the mind of some of them one person at a time. I see this is, in general, not true at all. Now I understand that the battle must be carried to those purveyors of lies at places like AIG and ICR. If any progress is to be made the battle to preserve the light against those who wish to restore the dark ages must be done at a higher level than individuals who've been brought up on lies. Why do I still bother to post here at all? Because beliefs are very hard to give up and I still think that an occasional individual is capable of learning. Just a couple of thoughts on your thread Nosy. Firstly I might suggest that your post does kinda sound as if if you are assuming that it is you that has all the truth and it is your duty to educate those who don't agree with your positions. It seems to me that this should be a place where everyone can debate and learn because IMHO none of us has lock on all of the truth. I'm not YEC and although I do believe that there is an intelligent designer I do not see ID as being scientific. (Neither do I see Atheism as being scientific.) However I am convinced that the scientific argument can easily stand up to a debate against YEC so I'm not sure why so many on this forum get so wound up by it. The other point I'd make is, that my experience with YEC's is by and large positive. The ones I have met are bringing up their kids in a loving environment, and basically just get on with their life like the vast majority of people. As much as I find science and the minimal knowledge I have of it fascinating, I don't think it really impacts one's life if they wish to believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. For what it's worth I find this forum very educational from both a scientific and theological point of view. As far as my own posts are concerned I just try to make my point but I don't really anticipate that I'll be changing anyone's positions. I am very grateful that there are those on this forum who are well informed both scientifically and theologically and for the time they invest in their posts. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
schrafinator writes: But you forget that these are the same people who have been working very hard, for decades now, to get their religious view taught in US public schools. I don't see where there's been much of a move to bring YEC into public schools. There has been a movement to bring religion in general into the schools so that kids can make up their own minds. When there is no discussion of religion in the schools what is then implied is agnosticism or Atheism. The movement now is to teach ID. I think it should be introduced as a contrast to evolution without a designer as opposed to evolution with a designer. I'm not suggesting that it is science but I think that students should be exposed to the fact that there are theistic evolutionists as well as atheistic evolutionists and they can make up their own mind. Students should be exposed to many ideas and they shouldn't be constrained by ideas that you don't accept as true.
schrafinator writes: They do NOT want to keep to themselves. They want to force everyone's children to be as ignorant of modern science as their's are. From a wider perspective, it DOES impact everyone's life if a significant number of people believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and all of the other stuff that an YEC believes about nature. How are they attempting to force their beliefs on others. They try to convince others of what they believe. Do you really think that a significant number of people when exposed to the YEC form of creationism and to the evidence of science will be left believing that the world is 6000 years old? I don't.
schrafinator writes: If these people can believe such baseless things simply because their religious instructors required it of them, then they are that much easier to manipulate and be told what to believe by political leaders, as well. Unquestioning obedience and loyalty are valued much more than critical inquiry and doubt in the YEC camp, as is amply demonstrated here. People of any belief system from YEC to Atheism tell others what they think should be believed. Everyone has many influences and they make up their own minds. Is it only OK to have the beliefs that you hold expounded in the school system or the political realm. I assume that you are quite happy to have Dawkins read in school so that Atheism is given a hearing.
schrafinator writes: Lastly, our world is based upon education, science and technology. I do not believe it to be good for a populace to remain ignorant in such a world. We are falling behind in the US in such fields as it is, and the Dover school board case tells me that the YEC's remain determined to keep us from catching up. I'm not an American, but it seems to me that the US is doing very well in the scientific realm. As an outside observer of your school system it seems to me that a large part of your school system has been dumbed down in order that more kids graduate. The fact that this has happened has nothing to do with religion. However, for those who want to excel you have many of the finest schools in the world. There are not many schools anywhere that can match schools such as MIT and Harvard. In Dover, as I understand it, there is no one that is suggesting that the teaching of science should be limited. They are suggesting that ID be taught as well. I disagree with ID when it starts to be an alternative to evolution which is what they seem to be doing. I can’t see where it is that big a probem. Is the theory of evolution so weak that it can't stand up to any alternative ideas. I'm not an expert but from what I've seen on this forum I believe it can. As a non-literalist Christian I'm not upset when things that I don't agree with are taught in schools. I have faith that in the end students will sort out all the information that they get. I have confidence that what I believe can withstand the teaching of other beliefs. Why is it that you are so afraid of having students exposed to beliefs that you don't hold? To admin: Your post appeared while I was writing this. I tend to think it is somewhat on topic as a great deal of what I have written in this post are things that I've learned from EvC. I would know nothing of the Dover school board and I would be more uncertain about evolution without what I've learned from EvC. Sorry however if you think it is off topic I'll desist from going further with the discussion. Edited by GDR, : to add last paragraph Edited by GDR, : to add last paragraph Edited by GDR, : No reason given. Edited by GDR, : All edits were to get the last para where I wanted it Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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