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Member (Idle past 3613 days) Posts: 122 From: Manchester, England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is it experts or "experts"? | |||||||||||||||||||
Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Charismaniac writes:
quote: Since two-thirds of the current population of the planet can grasp the concept of salvation and have managed to experience the event without the Bible and the message contained therein, by what justification do we claim that the Bible has the answer to the question of salvation and how to attain it? Since the entire planet grasped the concept of salvation and managed to experience the event before the Bible and the message contained therein, by what justification do we claim that the Bible has the answer to the question of salvation and how to attain it? With billions of people managing to achieve salvation without the Bible, why does anybody think the Bible is the only way to achieve it? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
quote:I have yet to see salvation---as defined by orthodox theologians-- experienced by two thirds of the planet.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Hi, RAZD.
Nice post, good overview: while I agree that...
RAXD writes: The most popular use of experts is medical. People go to doctors because they know more about sickness and injury than the common joe\jane. ...let me point out that I was referring to the "most prominent public" aspects of expert opinion--paid or partisan speech in adversarial contexts--in order to discuss its caustic effect on confidence in experts. Having worked in medical institutions for 20 years, I can tell you that people in general do no better at evaluating medical expertness than any other kind. Quite aside from fringe medicine and fraud (crystals, naturopathy, homeopathy, mircale fad diets, etc., etc.) that, sadly, distract millions from better care, almost no one bothers to check a physician's credentials or even to obtain the limited outcome data publicly available. Opinion shopping often continues until the patient hears what she wants to hear, rather than until a consensus, or a broader understanding of the issues, is reached. As a patient who has consulted multiple surgeons for multiple procedures over the years, I can report that, as my grandma said, when you go to the shoe store, they sell you shoes. On a related note, I can also report from long inside experience that while physicians generally order tests when they consider them necessary (for diagnosis or self-defense against malpractice claims), most labs get a rising number of normal scans and tests when business is slow... So I would say the negative impact of experts' self-interest on the credibility of expert opinion is pervasive in both public and private spheres. My subjective sense is that experts received much greater deference in the mid 20th century, and I believe that the marketing of expert opinion as an adversarial commodity, and the failure of the media in general to vet supposed experts, are responsible for much lost esteem. In Asia, I sometimes functioned as a "consulting expert" to American firms considering investment or wondering why their Asia investments had failed: the qualities required of an expert were often irrelevant to a knowledge or skill base--being from out of town, or being on the scene, or being without connection to anyone in the home office (and thus able to report what's happening on the ground without prejudice), or even being willing and able "to say what I (the executive who retains the expert) want to say but cannot." Our schools, our media, our experts: all need to do a better job in teaching the public how to evaluate expert opinion. There are many barriers: skepticism of expert independence, resentment of a privileged class, susceptibility to appeals to consequence...but the stakes are high.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Thanks, Ben. I felt we achieved considerable mutual understanding from that exchange, and I enjoyed it.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
My subjective sense is that experts received much greater deference in the mid 20th century, and I believe that the marketing of expert opinion as an adversarial commodity, and the failure of the media in general to vet supposed experts, are responsible for much lost esteem. I have also seen much greater deference given to {experts in specific fields} in europe, though my experience there is limited. Perhaps it is the american ego that is also part of the problem eh? by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
welcome back rrhain.
Another, more powerful effect, however, probably comes from cognitive dissonance. If you have a fundamental outlook of how the world is supposed to behave, encountering information that contradicts it is "traumatic." Thus, the information is denied in favor of the core belief. Yes, throw in denial too ... And one can feed the other as well: incompetence lets the faulty world view exist, the faulty world view says the fields of incompetence are not worthy of study. It becomes self-reinforcing. by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Charismaniac responds to me:
quote: Huh? Why is your definition of salvation the one that gets used? The overwhelming majority of the planet doesn't seem to use it. Why that one and none of the others? That said, just what sort of examinations have you done to show that they haven't achieved it? Please, let us not do the circular reasoning claim that the Bible says only the Bible brings salvation. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Thanks, RAZD. Been fairly busy of late with my plays and such. The Fantasticks had a long run which led into a couple of project management classes and then to Amadeus (playing Mozart for the second time). Haven't had an evening for myself since the beginning of summer. Not sure how long I'll be able to stay this time, either.
Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5032 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
I tried for a about 45 mins to find a way to break through "expert" evc talk and short of coming full brand Brad M on, I could not. Looks like it is time for me to do more than be no longer pertinent.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 12-06-2005 10:43 PM
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